one last chance for mls
greenwich village resident outlines a major league vision for manhattan’s pier 40
In just ten days, the brand new and beautiful Red Bull Arena will finally open to soccer fans with a sold-out exhibition between Red Bull New York and Brazil’s famed Santos football club. New Yorkers will hop on the PATH train and in about a half-hour arrive at the Harrison, NJ, based stadium without most of the problems of traveling to the Meadowlands, the previous home of RBNY and the now defunct Giants Stadium.
But for many who live East of the Hudson River, the biggest problems still remain. Will the best soccer stadium in the country be able to draw fans across the river? Can a building straighten out a mismanaged franchise with a history of failure? Will there be a honeymoon, and if so, how long will it last?
RBNY has its new home, but another structure’s future also places the city’s soccer future in the wind. Pier 40, one of the largest and most-used sports facilities in Manhattan, is in dire need of rehabilitation. Just as with RBNY, many plans have failed. But Greenwich Village resident Patrick Shields thinks he has the answer. An ambitious answer…
One Last Chance for MLS in Manhattan
an op-ed by Patrick Shields
The current revenue reliant development mandate at New York’s crumbling and contentious Pier 40, at West Houston Street and the Hudson River, may be the only chance, ever, to create a modest and traditional, English Premiere League style Major League Soccer franchise on the island of Manhattan. If current law stands, and admittedly desirable pro-neighborhood changes in the state legislature in Albany do not happen, a historic business and branding opportunity for Major League Soccer in New York City will be lost if supporters and soccer investors do not act quickly.
Greenwich Village area communities know that short of legislative changes in Albany in 2010, the Hudson River Park Trust, which controls what happens to Pier 40, and the Hudson River Park Trust Act, will ultimately require the investment and cooperation of a single, large corporate tenant. This tenant would have to embrace community requirements for usage and shed the burden of the historic lack of success and consensus with larger, less neighborhood friendly organizations. The difficulty is that publicly developed revenue streams may not be enough to permanently maintain the pier, and will certainly not be available, up front, in the vast amounts needed to first rehabilitate it.
A stadium may be anathema to Pier 40 communities, or seem politically impossible, but look at small stadiums throughout the world, especially London. Pier 40 can be a spectacular Hudson River facility–part Craven Cottage, (the Hudson standing in as the Thames) and part Loftus Road of Queens Park Rangers. By decree of the Park Trust Act, not more than 50% of the pier may be allotted for commercial revenue producing uses, and at least 50% must be dedicated to public use. I think a soccer specific stadium, what could ultimately be known to soccer supporters as “the old Pier,” can fit into this available acreage while creating vast new public green space.
Loftus Road, Queens Park Rangers.
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I argue that infrastructure investment can be soccer centric, and be soundly and prudently managed in acceptable neighborhood terms, for four reasons:
- The patiently managed emergence of the sport and business of soccer in the U. S. A.
- A potentially lucrative urban, iconic world class soccer franchise with a world market.
- A small scale stadium which would be available at times to the public
- A growing and well managed corporate soccer partner willing to cooperatively develop a true massive increase in Pier 40 public green-space, i.e. MLS.
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While started by the best of intentions, the failed efforts to update the pier to date are a prescription for the ultimate loss of Pier 40. A single, solid idea, with a single commercial partner needs to happen now. This would be a bitter pill to swallow for those in favor of corporation-free green space, but short of changes in Albany, (and where is the plan for that?) no one in the community has yet advanced a financially sound, revenue-based plan that the communities and the Park Trust control. Pier 40 Partnership came close on the ongoing revenue stream end, but the Trust seeks a long term financial home run which also includes drastic pier rehabilitation.
Rendering of Pier 40 Partnership’s vision of Pier 40
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An editorial by Arthur Schwartz of Community Board 2 on possible Albany action references a crucial item from the Park Act, Section 7(2): “the Trust shall not be authorized to issue bonds, notes, or other similar obligations, whether or not negotiable or to contract to pay debt service on such obligations issued by any other entity”. “In other words”, Schwartz writes, “the Hudson River Park Trust can’t take out a loan, it can’t issue its own bonds, and it can’t have the State and City issue bonds which it is obligated to pay back. Why, many may ask, doesn’t the Trust just develop the Pier itself?”
I argue that with a soccer plan we can, as long as all corporate capital raised for the project is protected, earmarked only for use in pier rehab, and pier and stadium development. First funds raised from private investors must of course require this. Post-development and ongoing operational revenues would have no such restriction, and again go to the Park Trust general fund. We can do it without taxpayer funded issues, without borrowing, and without paying debt service on other investor contributions.
The New York soccer community, the soccer business community, and Major League Soccer must make a determined and legit effort to find a group of U. S. and international luxury box lessees, raise $150,000,000 from them, assist pier development, and attract MLS ownership, with neighborhood and political priorities in place. The long term payoff for ownership, for Hudson River communities, and businesses old and new, would be enormous.
Ownership gets a flagship New York sports franchise in a growth industry with global export and branding. The community gets a well-developed, well-maintained pier with a single fitness-oriented business partner. Real park space, real revenues. Real access. No bond issues, no stadium rip-off. And all of this for the historically alternative Village, which could preside over American soccer’s most visible symbol of, “We’re here to stay.”
HISTORY
The Pier was built in the late 1950’s as a passenger ship terminal for the Holland-America lines, is the largest former working pier now under control of the Hudson River Park Trust, and sits at just over fourteen acres. It’s currently a huge parking garage surrounding a turf field used for the adult Metro NY Soccer, Downtown United and New York Kickers youth soccer, little league baseball, and other youth sports.
Governor George Pataki signed the Hudson River Park Act in 1998, designating a project area (including the then car-park-only pier) for a public park, establishing the Trust to “continue the planning, construction, management, and operation.” The Act also identified Hudson River enjoyment, maritime protection, quality of life, and waterfront recreation as integral aspects, allowing the “public interest” of “limited commercial uses.” The battle over these uses, and the growing necessity of funds provided by them, are what have created an MLS opportunity. While much of the waterfront has been developed and is ongoing, Pier 40 has become the inevitable public/private flashpoint, and the last decade has seen one protracted, failed attempt at public/private partnership after another.
Obstacles are large:
- Up front investment in amounts large enough to complete pier rehabilitation.
- Ongoing revenues within a cooperative plan which would satisfy both public and private entities and pay for service and maintenance of the public space in perpetuity.
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Both of these challenges will need to happen, all while maintaining no more than fifty percent private control of the available acreage. Corporations won’t foot the full bill, and right now the public can’t. Both have power to exercise under the current Act. Too much corporate desire butting up against too many neighborhood chefs has left all projects at a stalemate. The corporate entities, including big box stores, Related Management (a Cirque du Soleil option nicknamed “Vegas on the Hudson”), and others, have been rejected as too invasive. The neighborhood group, Pier 40 Partnership, was rejected as “financially unviable”. Everyone is tired of the R.F.P. (request for proposals) process, and won’t do it again without probability of success.
Commercial prospects already out both time and money won’t make another attempt without back room deals, while the neighborhood fights with itself and rejects all plans. School parents, the School Construction Authority, dog run and cheap parking advocates, greenmarket aficionados, soccer parents and LGBTQ youth center advocates attack each other online with vitriol and self serving non-dialogue certain to doom access to the Pier.
Major League Soccer is the perfect buffer. Only those unwilling to accept any corporate involvement can argue against this, but until they show us public money for rehab and a plan for revenues for ongoing maintenance, it’s all hot air. Let the clearest and best organized downtown groups put forward plans now. Let the loudest put money where their mouths have been. Haggling for space after making decisions has been a recipe for disaster up to now. Non-plans need to be abandoned, and a final process begun. Come up with a plan, or participate in someone else’s plan. Now.
Economic self sufficiency for Pier 40 would begin expensively and need long term economic commitment before hitting the ground. Fixing the leaky roof and rusting pilings is short term thinking. Total redevelopment and construction have to happen with the Pier closed. We all know this is coming; it has to happen. A small neighborhood-style soccer stadium within the overall public idea makes for the speediest construction.
This idea would necessarily be a space compromise for both the community, and for MLS, but it is possible. I envision a fifteen to twenty-five thousand seat stadium. London has done it again and again in dense urban and suburban areas.
INITIATIVES THAT FALL SHORT
The following consistently raised proposals are either misguided, or are admirable and suffer from insufficient planning:
1. Luxury, middle income or transitional (safe) housing
Any housing effort at Pier 40 would doom green space. The brutal lobbying tactics of luxury, or the emotions and politics of necessary middle income, safe or transitional housing would overwhelm. Park and recreational space must remain the absolute focus.
2. Traditional school space
Worthwhile, but another battle preventing green space. If in play, it ought to be small and specific—Science and new media or jobs-oriented for those under-served public school students for whom traditional education is of no interest. I am for school space, but the Pier 40 debate simply cannot include a large scale school or schools. Noble, obviously necessary, but not the right venue. We’re an island, maybe a maritime academy.
3. A dog run or dog park
This proposal is always emotional and too narrowly focused, deserving of marginalization during this debate if only as a means to eventually get more green space, and therefore more dog space. The petty bickering which always accompanies dog run debates has the potential to steal focus from a goal which at this point requires a laser like focus on financial success in order to rescue the Pier. Dog run advocates need to align themselves with a larger working plan instead of simply making demands for space with no plan of their own on the table.
4. Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transgender, Queer (LGBTQ) Center
This option is clearly necessary, and welcome in the Village, but it’s also an idea persistently accompanied by no plan. How will “at risk” youth “made safe,” and how it is going to be funded? I support this if it has specific purpose, like sports and fitness, in line with green space, and specifically funded arts and cultural training, for real professions. A “meeting place”, with “activities”, is dangerously vague at this stage in the fight for Pier 40’s survival, a catch-phrase for kids “hanging around.” Let’s give these kids a place with real purpose. Tell us what real dollars are going to fund the ongoing mission. Who is going to run it? What’s the plan?
New York Times photo from Pier 40 rally
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THE MLS PLAN (from a concerned Greenwich Village resident with no connection to the league)
A commitment to a Major League Soccer franchise from the very beginning can raise development money through leasing of luxury boxes, without ceding ownership control of the property to a non-HRPT entity. Twenty domestic and international soccer loving Global 500 corporations should each be willing to pay $7,500,000 in advance to lease a box at the only professional soccer stadium in Manhattan, if play were guaranteed to begin in five to seven years. This would be $468,750 per year for a sixteen year lease, or $375,000 per year for a twenty year lease. Four to five World Cup cycles in value, and the stadium easily completed in time for the Cup to come to the U.S. in either 2018 or 2022. It’s the world’s game and it will bring in the world’s money, not to mention the U.S. dollar now jumping aboard the soccer bandwagon. Soccer is here, and it is ascendant.
This $150,000,000 in development money would provide funding to both rehab the pier and build the stadium within. The stadium would then be leased to Major League Soccer, guaranteeing immediate operating revenue for ongoing park maintenance. (Added to this plan could be a sister WPS franchise, but for simplicity, I’ve kept it as MLS alone.) MLS would buy in, knowing it has corporate sponsors and fans literally built into a New York MLS flagship. Eventually stadium specific concessions go in, fostering further investment from which the Park Trust could command a revenue percentage. If we build it, they will come. If we own it, even nominally through the Trust, we help dictate the terms. In truth, this estimate for potential box leases may be conservative given soccer popularity worldwide, with more money and shorter leases possible.
To increase lease revenues, boxes can be limited to one company per nation, with the U.S. as an exception. The top bidding company from each of the top twenty bidding nations gets a box in each lease cycle. This increases overall lease revenues, creating a high profile international business networking presence, which alludes to the immigrant history of nearby New York Harbor. “The Pier” could be the single most international gathering place in New York City, on a weekly basis, with live MLS matches or giant HD screenings of Champions League and other international Cups as well. The soccer related revenue opportunities are endless, and then there are concerts and other events. How about The Philharmonic at Pier 40 in front of 20,000, four times a year? The possibilities are endless in New York City, where intimate outdoor arenas are almost non-existent.
From the outset, negotiations with MLS must also include the fate of luxury box lease fees from the second lease term and beyond. The eventual MLS or private owners will demand the lion’s share, but even a modest fee percentage could be a windfall for parks. Total public ownership of the stadium will be leverage. Perhaps Pier 40 Partnership will lead the way and find a financially practical business use for the first leased box.
The commitment to MLS, obviously, must be ironclad. Let the luxury box holders pay for the development for once, and to us, not to any corporate owner. For corporations from soccer loving nations doing business in Manhattan, these boxes would be an invaluable business tool and perk. Fellow Villagers, let’s go into the (small) stadium (which supports our parks) business, and have it benefit citizens for real, for once. I don’t see how the Hudson River Park Act prevents this. It’s not a bond or tax, and not a loan. And this isn’t the riverside, over-sized Jets stadium project.
It is a wonderful stadium. But will Red Bull Arena feel like home to New Yorkers?
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Above this would sit the MLS stadium field and stadium.
On the current ground level exterior ring, surrounding the public field, the enclosed spaces can be developed for community use. The south end becomes a recreational marina, ferry pick-up and dockage for goods delivered by boat. The west becomes greenmarket, general river view stroll, and a modest dog run. The north becomes arts and community centers of various types and a modest school or schools. All of these on or just within a continuous three sided open air promenade with no private interruption.
The current second level becomes covered parking all the way around the stadium opening, half reserved for local long term parkers (with a waiting list) and the other half for daily and hourly rental (with discounts for local, daily and hourly parkers). Or set it aside fully for local, long term parkers. Let the parkers fight over a pre-determined fixed amount of space, rather than continue to hold up the entire future of Pier 40 over the revenues issue.
With the addition of a new fourth level as described below, the current roof (third) level, becomes, along the outside ring, a covered promenade. This would be for dual use of the public (always), or public plus stadium fans (on match days). Concessions and restrooms, facing outward, could serve both, with as many open concessions on non match days as the market for the promenade demands. Stadium ticket entranceways and promenade side rear walls of luxury boxes could be in rotation with concessions and restrooms. Then, on the stadium interior, the rotation would be luxury box then advertising space, which again could be split with the Trust. The luxury boxes, at proper height, would have no fan obstruction. A half dozen or so blocks-worth could be held for MLS and team ownership offices (the league is headquartered in midtown Manhattan), with windows or decks facing the field.
With clever planning, the concessions could open on both the stadium side and the external promenade side, if the stadium side boxes were above them. No doubt an architectural challenge, this perhaps offers boxes both river views and stadium-side views. Perhaps the soccer franchise could take all concessions from game day, and the HRPT the remainder, to keep clean sheets on both sides.
On the stadium interior above and below the luxury boxes, there would be modest tiers of seating, all the way around. One from the new field level to either the level of concession or box, and another, larger graded tier above the boxes, again all the way around, allowing for maximum seating in the available space. I’ll bet 15,000 to 20,000 can fit.
A newly added fourth level would be green space all around, except for the stadium roof opening. Proper architectural and stadium lighting and seating planning could make the park deck and stadium opening equal in height, but with no field view from above, offering copyright protection to team owners while keeping 360 degree views available to park users. It could be an oval stadium opening, maximizing rooftop green space by building inward toward the oval. One of the new stadiums in Durban, South Africa, has a tram built into an arch over the top of the stadium, offering both revenue and structural support.
Moses Mabhida Stadium, Durban, South Africa
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Brilliant. It could be our London Eye-type attraction, but we make ours with two passing trams, a true funicular, stopping at a common viewing platform. The arch could offer genuine support for Pier 40 and the new pilings from above, and serve as yet another concession, more revenue for maintenance of the parks. The closest we’ll ever get to an urban “roller-coaster” and still be dignified. We can think big in a small space.
The new fourth level should be for rest, relaxation and reflection—an oasis. It should be dog free, frisbee free and sports free, designed to prevent interruption or injury.
The public space would be permanently free, with unimpeded rights to pass, sell art or get up on a soapbox. The pro stadium could be used for public and private school championships, like Columbus Crew Stadium.
A crucial issue for a professional team would be the lack of a training ground, so that would have to be split between the Pier and elsewhere, perhaps in an outer borough where the franchise could join with local youth soccer teams (and their own academy team) to create a home for NYC youth soccer. Or, have a pro team, for once, practice in New Jersey and play in New York.
Fans would come by public transportation. It works for Yankee Stadium, why not here? Walking bridges over the west side highway would be a necessity, and it would be about time. New Jersey fans could ferry into the recreational marina that would be included, or take the PATH. Islanders hop on the Long Island Rail Road. There are express subway stations at Chambers Street, West 14th, and West 4th/Washington Square, as well the Houston Street and Spring Street local stations. Sure, it’s pretty easy now to get to the brand new Red Bull Arena in Harrison, NJ, but nothing would compare to a Madison Square Garden for soccer.
THIS IS THE PERFECT PLACE
NYC, astonishingly, lacks pro soccer, the only world class city which does not permanently host the world’s number one sport. Make no mistake about it, Major League Soccer, no matter how successful, will not begin to compete internationally without a true New York City franchise. It’s just one of the reasons they need us as much as we need them, and why a fair deal is possible. And would not a public park containing a valuable franchise forever anchoring Pier 40 make future Olympic and World Cup bids more attractive to organizers? The Village has always had firsts, so why not host the first permanent and successful Major League Soccer franchise actually in New York City?
Residents participating in the process have clearly rejected the possibility of big box retail and big box entertainment, but an MLS venue need not grow or be a constant disruption. We all go to sporting events in other people’s backyards, what are we afraid of? This would always be a small, economically safe, local team in what will eventually be a much larger domestic business than it is now. Perfect partner, perfect time.
If New York City soccer fans are serious about a linchpin MLS franchise, the time is now. Imagine Pier 40 with three layers of public space, much of it year round use, and revenue built in on every level except the grand corporate-free rooftop. Coordination with one growing sports entity on our terms is a fair trade for massive and varied public space. Success of a sports franchise is never a guarantee, but I believe season tickets would sell out, and a lengthy wait list would back it up. The matches would always be full, the franchise stable, and because of that, so too would Pier 40, and the entire HRPT area.
Lobby the Hudson River Park Trust, Community Board 2 in Manhattan, and Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer. Lobby Don Garber and MLS, Sunil Gulati and U.S. Soccer. Get Pier 40 done and create jobs. It’s in the interest of the community for Albany to make Pier 40 part of its agenda immediately.
If the Trust Act changes, this former Cleveland Browns fan turned World Cup traveler will remain a fan without a team. I will always have the U. S. national team, but I long to have that Browns-like feeling for my own Leeds, West Ham or gritty little Burnley. To tell my friends “see you at the Pier”. Our Stamford Bridge. Our Cottage.
If there is no Albany action, the soccer community must be ready to strike. And in the current and constant state of Albany dysfunction why should we have any hope, or wait? It won’t be achieved without organization and a commitment to a long fight.
Here’s where we start: is there a soccer fan/stadium architect out there somewhere willing to help with the renderings which would better sell the greatest project of our lifetimes?
POSTSCRIPT
There has been, seemingly and suddenly, a vast consensus on Pier 40 as an enormous greenmarket. A public meeting called by the Hudson River Park Advisory Council will determine if the neighborhood has come up with yet another soon to be failed plan, or a plan with sound financial thinking, which will provide repair and rehabilitation for the Pier up front, in order that it may become whatever it becomes. I have read the plan proposed to fund it, and it involves the idea that small business owners being forced out of their spaces in the Village will somehow, suddenly, be able to afford mortgages to buy raw retail space to develop at Pier 40. That thinking merely opens the door for corporate retail development to ultimately swallow the Pier.
I enthusiastically support the greenmarket plan, as only part of an overall plan, (and have said so in my plan) but I oppose what I believe to be a mortgage plan which would only be affordable to corporate retailers. I also believe generally there should not be any non-HRPT ownership of any part of the Pier. I am calling for soccer enthusiasts to read the plan above, thoroughly, and if in New York, come out to support it.
Come to the meeting on March 22 at Village Community School Auditorium, 272 West 10th Street, between Greenwich and Washington Streets, 7 PM.
The meeting was held on March 22, 2010, and our voice was heard. As it turned out, it was a strict greenmarket agenda, so I voiced the idea that the Pier as a whole was too big for only a greenmarket, and that a greenmarket was an essential part of any Pier plan. Stay tuned. This is not over.
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Midweek Links | TheOriginalWinger.com
on Mar 10th, 2010 - 5:49pm
[...] One last chance for MLS. – TIAS [...]
Link Drop | TheOriginalWinger.com
on Mar 10th, 2010 - 5:56pm
[...] One last chance for MLS. – TIAS [...]
drewcore
on Mar 10th, 2010 - 8:32pm
Wow so well said… Being from Rockford, IL which suffers from no downtown draw, and being a Chicago Fire fan (while we have an amazing stadium) who lost a great destination stadium on the lake shore, and who lost a great deal of supporters who don’t make the trip to Bridgeview, this article was a breath of fresh air as teams continue to move away from their own markets.
Tobi Bergman
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 5:28am
Fortunately preposterous. Law requires 50 percent of the footprint of the pier to be public open space for recreation. There is no public transportation infrastructure or parking available. How do people leave a one-sided building next to a congested highway, let alone escape in an emergency? $150 million from leased boxes won’t pay for infrastructure and site development, let alone a billion dollar stadium. Opposition to removing popular public sports fields would be huge, but small compared to opposition to locating a stadium in Greenwich Village. One could go on and on…but why? No developer will waste 10 minutes thinking about it.
Bob Russo
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 7:16am
i am a soccer fan and would love to see another stadium-But how can you believe in soccer and propose something that will throw hundreds and hundreds of children who play soccer off their fields in the name of promoting soccer? This is not in the interest of soccer nor or of our community.
Pat Shields
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 7:43am
Tobi, please go back and give the piece a thorough reading, I address each point you make clearly. 1.) I specifically address the 50 % issue, and offer a link for others to fully read the Trust Act. 2.) Soccer fans will walk to matches from any train station, trust me on that one, there need not be a station at Pier 40. Are you suggesting that any grand public space attracting more people will not have this same emergency issues? 3.) I do not suggest a “one sided” building. I clearly indicate access and egress on all four sides, and I address construction of walking bridges over 9A, using the term “long overdue”. In an emergency the small number of fans can exit both across the highway and in either direction north or south in the park. It’s not impossible, so why the alarmist stance? 4.) No one is suggesting a billion dollar stadium, this idea is exactly the opposite, the antithesis of a Jets type issue. A tiny stadium built into only part of the available space, less than 50%, as I again, clearly state. 5.) I do not suggest removing any sports fields, in fact I say exactly the opposite. I clearly say to keep the fields and cover them with the new MLS stadium above, so that the public fields would now be open year round and even more usable. Same acreage, plus a new rooftop, plus other added public space clearly and specifically delineated. 6.) I’m not suggesting opening it up to any developer. I very clearly state this is something the Trust and we, the public, should develop ourselves, and own, without turning over the property to any private entity. I would think that someone with as important a youth sports history in the Village as yours would give this plan, or any thoughtful plan, more than a cursory reading.
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on Mar 11th, 2010 - 8:29am
[...] a more aesthetically pleasing and thoughtful piece about the state of soccer in the New York area, This Is American Soccer features an op-ed on a “last chance for MLS in Manhattan”: “RBNY has its new home, but another [...]
Rob
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 10:10am
I believe NY can support two franchises, but I think the impact on RBNY would be a major concern for MLS.
c3j1v62
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 10:18am
Why not FC New York, the USL-1 team instead of MLS?
Matt
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 10:20am
Using your logic, New York does not have a throwball team it can call its own either.
I drive about an hour and a half each way - from upstate NY - to go to Red Bulls games. Hearing Manhattanites complain about having to schlep out to Jersey when it’s a 20 minute ride on the PATH train, is something I find more than mildly annoying.
Moreover, you do not address anywhere in the article MLS’ current perspective on having a second team in the New York market, nor what Red Bull’s objections might be to such an initiative.
Pat Shields
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 2:30pm
A fair point, Bob, but any rehabilitation effort at Pier 40 must ultimately address the issue of disruption of play. The fields didn’t even exist a few years ago, and I feel a plan in the service of protecting them in the longer term is worth the disruption. I personally think the fact that the Pier itself is threatened is the greatest threat to perpetual playing fields. My point is let’s get it out of the way sooner than later, before there is a catastrophic loss of fields. Let’s get them set for good.
Pat Shields
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 2:38pm
I understand Matt, and kudos to you for the loyalty to RBNY. For me the issue is as much, if not more, about getting our neighborhood Pier 40 issue settled once and for all, than believing MLS to be a good fit at this particular time. I’m pretty certain that no where in the piece did I complain about travel to see the Red Bulls. The one RBNY specific comment was added by the editor. His blog, his right. RBNY just not my team, nothing wrong with that. I think Pier 40 can be a jewel for both the neighborhood, and for MLS.
Pat Shields
on Mar 11th, 2010 - 2:45pm
One MLS related thing, FYI, for those concerned. I DEEPLY believe that a local rivalry would be the best thing for Red Bulls ticket sales there could possibly be. Season ticket sales would probably go up. Imagine the amount of Pier fans going to Harrison both on rivalry days, and when RBNY plays an important match on a day nothing is at the Pier. Pier 40 would be an instant season ticket sellout, no question, and RBNY would benefit.
Dave
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 1:17am
I’ve seen some really preposterous ideas on the internet, but this idea has got to be the stupidest idea of all time.
Pat, I love it when you write: “Twenty domestic and international soccer loving Global 500 corporations should each be willing to pay $7,500,000 in advance to lease a box.” Oh, sure Pat. Sure they would. International corporations would be eager to spend 7.5 million dollars to watch a team that does not yet exist — and would play in a league (MLS) that they don’t care about. Sure, Pat.
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 7:10am
They paid more than this yearly price for Yankee Stadium boxes before it was built, and presale of luxury boxes is a common and successful funding mechanism at both newly built and under construction stadiums worldwide. In the meantime, I don’t see a Pier 40 idea on the table from either “Dave” or Tobi Bergman, both who have used the word “preposterous”.
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 7:21am
Some of the Yankee boxes go for as much as $850K per year, and the city gave the Yankees 400 million in tax free bonds. Why does an idea which can pay for itself without giving anything but the partial space away, and at less than half that yearly cost, and retains complete control of the space, not have merit enough to be explored? Dave, you’re also suggesting that soccer-hungry expatriates wouldn’t pay to watch any worthwhile pro soccer live, or to use it as a business network with other foreign business-people, which I think is truly preposterous.
Dave
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 7:59am
People paid in advance for Yankee Stadium boxes because the Yankees are really popular. Have you noticed that baseball is more popular in this country than soccer? A whole lot more popular?
Presale of something is possible when there is a huge demand for the product. But there is NOT a huge demand for luxury boxes at MLS stadiums. There never has been! Soccer hungry expatriates are interested in watching their favorite teams from back home. Very few of them are interested in MLS. You seem to be living in a fantasy land in which Major League Soccer is as popular in America as The National Football League or Major League Baseball. Please come back to reality.
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 1:55pm
I appreciate your response but must take issue with your willingness to speak with such certainty on behalf of foreign fans, in this most international of cities, about the potential for success of a stadium housing a sport you clearly don’t like (it seems, I may be wrong). Soccer fans, foreign and domestic, know better. It’s here to stay, and can support this. Have you noted how many former NFL development executives are now steering the course of MLS? That should indicate plenty. Also, youth soccer is now king, over baseball and football, including at Pier 40, which is the real issue here. Just trying to plan a little stadium with a lot of park space. People are responding as if no one has ever raised 150 million for a construction project in New York City before.
Dave
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 3:02pm
I am a huge soccer fan, which is why I know there is — and has always been — a limited audience for MLS. Corporations are not forking over millions of dollars for luxury suites at MLS games because the clients of those corporations are not that interested in going to MLS games!
The stadium you are proposing would cost a lot more than $150 million. I would estimate it would cost around $500 million. The pre sale of luxury suites might raise at most about a half million or a million dollars. So where are you going to find the other $499 million?
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 4:12pm
There are no reliable estimates of anything at Pier 40, a HUGE part of the problem with the process. But remember, this is not a stadium built from scratch. It’s added into the existing structure. Everybody is giving estimates of everything and they’re all over the place. What I want is for them to allow for a bonafide plan, controlled for and owned by the Trust, to be allowed to move forward, find out what the actual cost would be, and move forward. Action. Soccer plan fans would provide action, and if its costs more, we’ll find a way.
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 4:14pm
I also note that as part of your last response, you did not say “and always will be” a limited audience. Perhaps a small concession to my dream?
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 4:40pm
I’ll just check in once per day as we get close to the meeting date, and reply only if I see something which mischaracterizes my idea. Just want anyone who checks in to please keep comments civil. Thanks. PS
Dave
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 5:13pm
You didn’t answer the question, Pat. Where are you going to find the other $499 million to build this thing?
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 6:11pm
My answer to you is show me your plan, and explain why it costs 500 million dollars. That’s a big sum to pull out of nowhere. The most recent estimates of initial costs for repair are roof and pilings 30 million (Park Trust), and Connie Fishman countering that it would take 40-50 million just to fix the pilings. In my plan that leaves 100 million to get started on the overall rehab and construction. A brand new stadium for the World Cup in Nelspruit cost 137 million and this would be a third the size and not needing to be built from scratch. When more money is needed, THEN the Arthur Schwartz idea of changing the Trust Act and selling bonds can be used, and the funds from the second lease period used to pay these off. That’s another 150 million plus in 16 to 20 years. At some point after all is paid off the lease renewals become windfall. I predict by the third lease period, and then in perpetuity. A huge windfall for the parks realized in our lifetimes.
Pat Shields
on Mar 12th, 2010 - 6:20pm
Look at The People’s Pier site for the Pier Partnership. They’re the first group that has addressed the Pier in a rational and proactive way. Add my plan to their plan, and Pier 40 gets going. http://pier40partnership.org/
marcelo
on Mar 13th, 2010 - 7:13am
I am from Argentina, live in Brooklyn, and my friends and I
proposed almost the same plan to each other, so it is not original.
That Atlantic Yards should have a small stadium, and boxes would
pay the cost over a couple of lease periods. It would be full always,
morethan basketball for sure. You Americans don’t understand that we
follow our teams win or lose.This plan is better. It gives away no land ownership or permanent lease. The company per nation auction is brilliant, but I would change it to boxes close to midfield having a much higher minimum for auction, or that the position of each country should change from year to year so that the richest countries’companies don’t get the midfield boxes every time. Of course Argentina should be guaranteed a box.We have the best futbol.
Buena Suerte,
Marcelo
Dave
on Mar 13th, 2010 - 12:40pm
As I said, I don’t know if it would cost 500 million dollars. That’s just my estimate. But you couldn’t sell bonds to finance a project like this because it’s too risky. Well, you could sell bonds if there was a guarantee in place that the taxpayers would make up the shortfall, but I assume you don’t want public money paying for it.
The only way to get something like this built is to find someone with several hundred million dollars who is willing to invest a fortune to built it. Good luck with that.
J.s.
on Mar 14th, 2010 - 1:17pm
I really hope we get a club there. I’m from Long Island, and I will never go to Jersey for a game…. let a lone support a team called the effing “Red Bulls”.
The name alone scares me away.
Leon Hess
on Mar 20th, 2010 - 10:40pm
The more clubs the merrier! All the new clubs being formed will only make the red bulls stronger. RBNY have so much money and are ready to spend whatever it takes to have the best product on the field. The more money New Yorkers put into the sport means better quality in the long run. The sport is growing at an extremely large growth rate. Currently there aren’t enough teams to support the growth. Inner city soccer is approximately 5 years behind the rest of the country. Great improvement from 5 years ago as the inner city was 10 years behind the rest of the country. It’s catching up at an exponential rate due to more teams. Kudos to all the hard work done by all the grass roots programs around the city.
PN BKLYN
on Mar 22nd, 2010 - 1:01pm
The football Giants and Jets have long histories of playing in New York and every right to maintain their N.Y. identity. The Red Bulls can make no such claim and so MLS still lacks at team in the countries biggest and most important market.
Pat Shields
on Mar 22nd, 2010 - 2:52pm
Great point, PN BKLYN. Also, did you read George Vecsey’s piece in the Times this morning about New york being perfect now that there is a dedicated soccer stadium? Admirable, but I say we’re still one stadium away from that pronouncement…
Dave in San Jose
on Mar 23rd, 2010 - 6:44am
Adam - Saw this and thought of you:
http://theoriginalwinger.com/2010-03-22-adidas-the-feather-leads-to-the-revolution
I think there’s a really interesting article to be written about how different Football Associations around the world promote football and the World Cup to their citizens. This Japan ad treats the J Team as anime heros. The U.S. has ads like the patriotic “Over There” and have a very Revolutionary War mentality - the little guy/underdog. No idea how the teams are portrayed in England, Italy, Spain, Brazil, etc. How the local Football Association promotes their national team says a lot about a country and it’s psyche. Would love to see an author take a stab at this topic.
Mark
on Mar 23rd, 2010 - 8:59am
I appreciate the notion of turning Pier 40 into an MLS Soccer stadium, but is this realistic? Can the West Side of Manhattan support a 20,000 seat venue on the West Side Highway? Who would own the franchise? Given the failure of the NY Jets to get the West Side Yards/Olympic Stadium through the NYS legislature, I can’t imagine how MLS Pier 40 could ever happen.
I appreciate the lack of willingness by some to support RBNY, but please, take the PATH to Red Bull Arena one time. Experience it for yourself. If the energy of Saturday’s opener persists, Red Bulls matches will become a tough ticket to get. Support your local side!
joey
on Mar 23rd, 2010 - 11:58am
nice vision, unfortunately no business sense what-so-ever. first, there would be no attraction at all to world cup or olympics to a stadium that seats less than 75k - chicago is not even on the bid list for the next world cup because all the other stadiums are bigger. an mls team would not survive on that side of manhattan as the infrastructure could not hold up - it is better to get in a car and drive, park and tail gate than have to manage lirr, mta, etc… on horrible days the walk from the train to the stadium alone would deter any walk up fans. fc ny or any usl team for that matter will not sell any of the boxes nor draw any where near the amount needed to make this profitable. fc new york is already shooting itself in the foot by being “queen’s” team but playing at hofstra, that formula never works even if only temporary. the reason why the yankees, giants boxes work is because their entertainment value, history and pedigree is attractive to some companies to be a part of on behalf of their clients. there is no soccer team in the US that you can even compare to yanks and the way the league is structured, there never will be. in order for mls to work in this city you need to have the stadium closer to the fans and it must be soccer specific w/o all the other stuff you list that would make pier 40 happen. there cannot be any non-soccer interference. queens would be the first and most logical choice. a stadium in manhattan that is not the biggest and best place to be has no chance against the other sport cathedrals in the area. there is no need to be in manhattan for that matter but a sharing arrangement with red bulls would not draw the ny fans either. agree totally that another team is healthy for this area and the league but it must be a legitimate plan and not some pipe dream pier 40 remake. the reason why the fulham’s of the world will never be a bigger than mid-table team is because of their stadium, I think it is the coolest stadium in that country but they cannot compete with most if not all the teams in london because their revenue doesn’t match the others and they cannot grow big enough to attract the global multi-national sponsors. nice idea though.
The Rundown: Best Links Of The Week |
on Mar 23rd, 2010 - 6:58pm
[...] 3. This Is American Soccer: One Last Chance For MLS [...]
Pat Shields
on Mar 25th, 2010 - 9:30pm
Joey. Nobody tailgates at Madison Square Garden, and they all arrive by train or subway, yet there is tradition. Tradition takes time. You underestimate the power of NYC to create a winner, I’m not arguing for an instant classic. That’s not what love for a team is about. it’s about history, and winning and losing and “maybe next year”. Loving your team win or lose. It starts with a small stadium in a small venue, like Pier 40. When you say the stadium must be closer to the fans, do you mean the 8 million in subway distance? Six of the World Cup stadiums in South Africa are under 50K seats. Five of those six are 45K or below. MLS at Pier 40 would be, for whatever the event, MLS, Olympics, Cup, friendlies, qualifying…one sold out match after another. The Fulhams of the world also have competitors down the block, and down the river, and so on. MLS in Manhattan is printing money.
Pat Shields
on Mar 25th, 2010 - 9:45pm
People seem to argue against Pier 40 by saying that traveling to RBNY is easy, and tailgating is fun, but also saying that a little rain would keep people from walking from the subway (or for me, from my apartment several blocks away) to the Pier. Really, if I live close to a team, who am I going to support? RBNY, bless them, are not now, nor will they ever, be my team. I purchased season tickets once, in year one, for both Metro Stars and the LA Galaxy, to support the league. Now I want a team of my own, and I’m happy to wait. MLS needs to know that there are tens of thousands like me, who will be season ticket holders, for life, if they find a way in New York City proper. We’ll be fighting each other for spots in line. They know they need to do it, Gulati is on record saying it is a priority…it will happen. I just want it to be close, and am advocating for an opportunity.
PN BKLYN
on Mar 26th, 2010 - 9:02am
Pat, Thanks.
Just a comment on getting to Harrison. I live in Brooklyn and would have to take the subway, to the Path to, what, Jersey Transit? A three legged trip. Maybe on a Saturday afternoon, but not likely for a night game. The same applies to most NYC or state residents.
Pat Shields
on Mar 26th, 2010 - 12:57pm
It is a sweet little stadium though. Too much South Africa planning yet to do, to go out regularly this spring, but I’ll venture from time to time. I was splitting time between NYC and LA, living mostly in LA in Year One during that 12-0 start, so in many ways my heart will be with the Galaxy until I have an NYC team.
The Frontline: 3.26.10 « The New Colossus
on Mar 26th, 2010 - 5:39pm
[...] [This Is American Soccer] Typical quality from TIAS. This time the topic is the potential of a stadium in NYC. [...]
joey
on Mar 27th, 2010 - 5:15am
pat- i like what your thinking, do not get me wrong it would be great. the reality however is that no one will drop a dime on $40 million + rights fee to have the second team in manhattan and utilize a 20k seat stadium. the roi is not going to attract a single person as it would be highly unlikely to get a return on the investment. it does not matter what they did in south africa regarding stadium size- we live here and the fact of the matter is that several major cities with mls teams did not make the cut because the stadium is less than 75k, that is a fact. there would never be a wc game at a small stadium or a major int’l friendly because the economics no longer work. you cannot pay a barcelona or chelsea 1 million dollar appearance fee plus all the other expenses and fees to pull off a friendly and then and then have to charge people $200 to recoup the costs. you will lose money every time. a comparison to madison square garden is apples to orange as none of the events at the garden have any of the same elements that soccer has. hockey, bball, etc do not have a tailgate. the garden is icon because of the various events it has held over its history (boxing, concets, big east tourney) not necessarily by the teams. there is nothing iconic about a knicks team that has not won since 1971. the garden is corporate driven - when was the last time you had the knicks or rangers selling out every game - not in very long time - they are still around because of the corporate seats and not true fans. true knick and ranger fans (i am both) have been priced out for the most part unless you want to sit in the rafters. having an mls team in manhattan is not like printing money or it would already have been done. there have been dozens of very wealthy individuals, groups and firms that have looked into this. your grassroots fan base is not in manhattan and that is why anyone that would have to pay into a league and then build a stadium would go to an area close to queens/brooklyn border with easy access from long island - that is where the majority of the youth leagues in the northeast are. if you are going to be a ny team you would go where the soccer is - you can not rely on corporate any more so it would be the soccer fan that you need. the numbers and accessibility to your fan base all point to queens. if it were built there would you go?
Pat Shields
on Mar 27th, 2010 - 10:20pm
Wow. Joey. Depressing. A lot of arguments against. Yet, somehow I know it can work. Does that make me an optimist? Or just a credit card at the ready soccer fan who knows that he’ll be fighting to get in line with all the other credit card at the ready fans who are dying to shell out for season tickets for an MLS squad we can walk to? I wouldn’t go to Harrison, why would I go to Queens. I love the fans there and I want to be their arch enemy. I want to be the arch enemy of RBNY. I want rivalry. Local rivalry. Trust me, New York can support three teams, if not four. Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and of course, the New Jersey Red Bulls. Keep arguing against, then watch it happen…respectfully, of course. One fan to another.
joey
on Mar 28th, 2010 - 7:27am
pat, i live in manhattan. i am a realist, not pessimist. i have worked at every level of the sport including other leagues so i know the business reality of the situation. one can have vision as you do and a dream as you and i do for a ny team. that being said if you are only going to support a ny team if you can “walk” to it then i do question your logic. if an area like willets point in queens or a redevelopment in an area close to b’klyn and queens is sorted and a legit mls team (i will admit right here i will not spend a dime on anything that will not compete with rbny) is built and flourishes in that area, and you will not support it then i would suggest that you keep your credit card and maybe use it to do a feasibility study of all you points to see which are able to return on an investment. respectfully, a manhattan-centric selfishness is not what this sport needs - the team and vision needs to be where it will work for the entire soccer community not so you can walk to it and every else has to deal with a commute. i do think that this is a great vision but anything less than the ability to produce a red bull arena or home depot like setting and your are DOA. this is certainly not the last chance at all for the mls as their will be a second team in the area for sure. keep dreaming as i will unfortunately we will not be celebrating the new york team in queens together because it may be a bit of a walk for you. the difference between me and you is the passion for a proper team would lead to walk where ever it may be in this great city, not just down the block from me. your a new yorker not only a manhattanite. hope you are right and i will buy you the season tix for the pier 40 arena. but my business sense tells me i will be in queens enjoying myself root for a ny team.
Pat Shields
on Apr 1st, 2010 - 3:39pm
You are most definitely misunderstanding my aims, and unfortunately personalizing it as if I have some elitist Manhattan centric posture. Pier 40 is an ultimate fantasy goal. Being able to walk to my squad is my Premiere League like ideal, and I’m sure it is for others in urban areas all over the country. A New York City squad is the goal. I have often said the first ACTUAL NYC squad would be my squad. That being said…I’ve sent the idea to politicians, Community Board members, neighbors, and the Park Trust. I’ll only stop if something else happens at Pier 40. You never know. As Sean Connery said in The Untouchables, “What are you prepared to do?” Are you out there advocating somewhere? Or are you just waiting around for MLS to fall in your lap, while telling others with certainty what is and isn’t possible?
joey
on Apr 2nd, 2010 - 7:21am
I am a bit confused as you did say you would not go to queens if there were a team there. regardless, i hope you are right. i, like you, just want a proper nyc team wherever it may land.
Pat Shields
on Apr 7th, 2010 - 6:05pm
No worries. One day we’ll be sitting in the same section watching the new Cosmos (I’m not a big one for nostalgia, but I like the guy who’s got the rights to the name), or Immigrant Football/Soccer Club New York (IFC/ISC, my preferred name) or whatever it ends up being called. My only issue is the complete lack of aggression on the part of MLS in New York City proper, knowing that the time to strike is now, and that opportunities such as Pier 40 will soon go away. The time is now, and they need to start showing some New York guts. Play some politics. Take a risk. Get turned down by a Community Board, take chances. So far, so safe, has been the strategy. And it has been right, and it has worked. Now is the time to make a big play for New York. Very soon the city will be starting a big push to change the waterfront everywhere in NYC. MLS must strike NOW, before all the developable areas are spoken for. The waterfront is the only possibility outside of Queens. Pier 40, my friend…a good place to start the pressure on MLS…cheers to you for the ongoing convo.
Paul
on Aug 2nd, 2010 - 12:45am
Pat: The FIFA requirement for a stadium to be used in a World Cup is 40,000 capacity (down from 45K for South Africa from previous editions), so it could only be used as a training facility should the US get the WC and NYC be a venue. But MLS is staking its claim to 25-30K soccer specific stadia, wich makes one wonder about the economic viability of the business model.
I was on the road today, but arrived home to see the rebroadcast on WNYC of the NYC Cup Final from Flushing Meadows Park and Pele’s announcement of the revival of the Cosmos, with Carlos Alberto, Giorgio Chinaglia and Sunil Gulati in attendance. I’m thrilled at the prospect, and, by the way, Pele is the best looking 70-year-old in the world! But the NYC Cup proves that for football, as romantic as a river venue in the Craven Cottage mold might be, Queens is the locus for football in NYC, with over 100 languages spoken, and football being the only common to all. That being said, there are hurdles aplenty to building in Willets Point, not the least of which are the unresolved eminent domain suits from merchants of the Iron Triangle and the need for federal approval to changes of the Interstate highways (I-695) Whitestone Expwy and the Van Wyck Expwy.
Now as much as Pat would like to will this project, as a lifelong New Yorker and former Cosmos season ticket holder (I used to bus to Giants Stadium from the Port Authority), I feel obliged to throw a little cold water on the dream. The West Side is where development dreams go to die. From Westway to the Jets’ Stadium, the history is purely dismal, which is why the West Side is the largest parcel of underdeveloped land on Manhattan Island. And after a careful rereading of your article, I don’t see how this stadium qualifies as a ‘public use.’ Tis is not the time that corporations are3 looking to splash cash on luxury boxes for a sport still far below the popularity of the big four team sports. In NYC, even tennis has a bigger advocacy among the power elite than footbal does. Pier 40 even doesn’t do well by PSAL standards. The thought process is good, just pie in the sky. The Cosmos would almost be better off returning to their roots on Randall’s Island, where the Cosmos played in 1975 in what is NOW called Icahn Stadium. Transportation there, other than by car, is a nightmare, but you minimize the access to pier 40 issues at your peril. It’s a good six blocks from the Houston St. Station (at Varick) from the IRT train, and even further from the IND. There is a single bus line. Unless you build a garage below the stadium, auto access is impossible. Cheers and good luck!
Pat Shields
on Aug 4th, 2010 - 11:36am
Paul, I very much appreciate the comments, though I strongly disagree with a few of your points. A REGULAR walking/subway crowd, regardless of how far the stations are away (are you kidding, it takes 6 minutes to walk there from West 4th, maybe 5 minutes from Chambers Street, 2 minutes from Houston Street station?) will be far easier to maintain than a regular crowd at Randalls. Is no one getting the feasibility of a true neighborhood squad, which would also have massive support outside of the neighborhood as the first Manhattan MLS franchise? In MANHATTAN? This is a no-brainer. You make six blocks walk sound like a tramp through the desert. I just went to South Africa, and thousands like me from New York did as well, I’m sure they can muster a stroll from the subway to the Pier. For international corporations wanting big league soccer to sponsor, in Manhattan and a few subway stops from Wall Street is, again, a no-brainer. Tennis and golf have a higher ad rates and the target audience to back it up, but fewer fans willing to go to a match regularly. Those sports are ONLY tournament-centric. Soccer, in Manhattan, anywhere, will trump this any time. It’s a growth industry here, as usual, comments seem to be centered on hitting a home run from the get go. Gulati and Garber understand the patience necessary to build. I’ve been following the Willets issues, and do believe the Pier 40 issues to be more possible, with the right backing. Other notes: A MUCH smaller effort comparably to the NFL has a better chance of passing neighborhood muster. Pier 40 is slated for development, something WILL happen there, that much is a done deal, it just waits for the right group with the right plan. That must be made clearer to those reading…Pier 40 waits for a plan, no eminent domain issues, period. I agree of course it would not be a World Cup venue but a practise facility is very much part of a sales pitch. Women’s World Cup?. A no brainer. NCAA’s? No brainer. Re-read the sections about how much public use there would be. Much more than available now, including 24/7/365 field space, and park/green/greenmarket/local groups space. Did you completely overlook those very specific sections? Your suggestion that there is no qualification for public use really does do a disservice to what I have actually suggested. I am more than certain that you share my spirit for this, in fact you may be involved (I hope) in MLS future, but I have to call you on these points. Also, very important…I truly believe that MLS risks its future if it does not begin to support and develop small neighborhood urban franchises. They are the mainstay of EVERY international professional league. Suburban stadia are great but will be much more affected in down economic times. MLS needs this and MORE like it for stability, growth and survival. Nothing is impossible, nothing is pie in the sky. This is as possible as any bridge, tunnel, high-rise, waterfront development or anything else in New York City which someone has believed in.
The Endline » Without a Stadium, can the New York Cosmos become the 20th Team in MLS?
on Aug 27th, 2010 - 2:53pm
[...] next to Citi Field. Neither of those options compare to the central location of a potential stadium at Pier 40 suggested by Greenwich Village resident, Patrick Shields and featured on This is American Soccer. The stadium issue needs to be sorted out by the end of [...]
Pat Shields
on Mar 5th, 2011 - 2:55pm
Have been watching the Wilpons situation and wondering why they were ever considered the heir apparent owners for MLS in NYC. They’re not soccer people, they’ve grossly mismanaged the Mets and they may have participated in a huge financial fraud. MLS needs to look at Pier 40 before the opportunity goes away.
Jack Creech
on Jul 6th, 2011 - 12:30pm
Absolutely magnificent idea here. The new York cosmos with pele and cantona will find a way to support this.
Patrick Shields
on Jul 8th, 2011 - 10:12pm
Thanks Jack, and thanks to Adam for continuing to look closely at the big picture. I keep sending the letters to public officials and others. A big change at The Hudson River Park Trust leadership and staff recently, so, important people send mail, with links to this article, to them, to the NY State Legislature (anyone who works on Parks funding), to the Cosmos, and to the New York City Council and Mayor’s Office.
Paul Lopez
on Apr 5th, 2012 - 9:30am
I just read that the MLS is meeting with the Pier trust and local politicians, I really hope that this happens because a soccer team based in lower manhattan would only benefit the league but also make New York an attractive place for soccer superstars to come and play in the capital of the world! Is there any word on this meeting being open to the public?
Patrick Shields
on Apr 5th, 2012 - 9:38am
Sadly, closed to the public. The Hudson River Park Trust is a quasi public organization, and they both they and MLS are making a huge mistake beginning this process with no public meeting. A terrible gamble.
Dale
on Apr 5th, 2012 - 12:38pm
Hey Patrick, I have been involved with grassroots Soccer in NYC for a number of years. My Meetup group has over 2000 members and it’s one of the most active group in NYC : http://www.meetup.com/NYCSOCCER/
Just wanted to know if there’s anyway my organization and myself can get involve to help bring the Cosmos to Pier 40?
I have read your proposal in detail and I like what’s presented. We do play at pier 40 and at first my concern was the displacement of any groups who play at Pier 40 but a short term sacrifice for a long term gain is the way to go.
Patrick Shields
on Apr 5th, 2012 - 3:32pm
Hey Dale, I’ve actually played pick-up with (OK, against) you. Been laying low post-ACL but starting to kick around a little again. Didn’t know you were nycsoccer, but I looked at your photo and remember you. Absolutely, we must stay in touch. The best way for everyone to help is to advocate both for soccer, and for the neighborhood and the leagues. Seek a balance which preserves neighborhood priorities. It is a given that the public fields must remain intact or enhanced. I really like giving parents a covered year round solution. The league must understand that it needs to do this, and it needs to enlist us as emissaries, ESPECIALLY any meetup members who live in or around the Village/Soho/Tribeca/Chelsea. Pro-Pier 40 editorials in The Villager and WestView newspapers and attendance at any public meetings announced. Do you know the guy who runs Brooklyn Soccer?
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