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New York Times’ Jack Bell with FC Barcelona’s Ronaldinho.

If a publication came to you and said you could write a story about Ronaldinho but you’d have to pay your own way to Barcelona, what would you say? Ok, easy question. What if you had been a journalist and editor for more than two decades covering soccer from the Cosmos to the MLS? Would your answer be any different? For New York Times Jack Bell, passion has to trump payment from time to time.

It’s a problem in American soccer journalism. It goes along with the naysayers of my Red Bulls ticket give-a-away plan: if you start giving it away for free, who is going to pay for it? More than the fact that there is only so much news to go around to so many writers, the editorial powers that be contend a market is not there to demand it. They’re not wrong, but they’re not exactly right either.

Bell’s Ronaldinho story became one of nytimes.com’s most-read stories after it was posted, but it isn’t any easier for him to get soccer stories published (it’s a bit easier when you have a name like George Vecsey). If you’re like me, you believe a news outlet like the New York Times has an obligation to cover American soccer, even if only on-line, even if behind the veil of the pay-to-play Times Select.

It turns out that pay-to-play goes for some writers as well, a situation I’ve been on losing side of with some of the top outlets in journalism, garnering responses like, “We’d be happy to publish the work if it’s good, but we can’t pay you for it.” It should be no surprise that money talks, but during my hour-long conversation with Jack Bell over lunch in Times Square, I was surprised to learn a veteran of the genre would face the same obstacles.

Our conversation, including his thoughts on the Times’ treatment of soccer and many other subjects are after the jump, along with a few photos from inside Ronaldinho’s house that were passed up by the Times and are now a TIAS exclusive…

So let’s begin with how you found soccer and turned it into a career?

I used to go to summer camp. Sleep-away camp. General camp. All sports. Up in the Pocanos. It was a Jewish camp, all kosher. I started going when I was maybe 10 years old. Mostly kids from New York; mostly counselors from New York. Then they started bringing over counselors from England, who played soccer, rugby, cricket. So we started playing soccer, and that’s how I got into it. It became a way for me to learn about the world. Different cultures, different teams. As you know, every team has a certain segment of the population backing them.

So that how I got into it. I played in junior high and high school. I grew up on Long Island on Seaford and Rockville Center. I went away to school. My grades were never good enough for me to play on the team, but I was always hanging around the team. I was on an intramural team with guys in similar situations who couldn’t play for whatever reason. We won the championship. Then I transferred to Wisconsin. They had no team. they had a club team, made up of players from other places who didn’t really care about playing with an American. It was just always one of those things I did.

I went to the World Cup in Argentina in 1978. Always played, always was interested in it.

Whoa. Argentina World Cup ’78? Work or fun?

I went on vacation. I worked for a paper then in New Jersey, that really, again like everyone else, covered the Cosmos, but they weren’t interested. I did a column when I came back. I was in Cordoba for two weeks and then I went to Buenos Aires for the third place game and the final. That was the last final where there would have been a replay, because it went into extra time. I think the final score was 3-2. But if ended as a tie, Tuesday, there would have been another game. Everybody was leaving, so that was the last time they did that.

I still that is the best way to handle it, finances aside.

Well, of course it is. The penalty kicks are - Everybody makes fun of it, and rightfully so.

And people argue that just continuing until a goal is ugly soccer and not always fair.

It does get ugly, but you have to worry about it, Adam, is that not maybe the best way to do it? At some point somebody makes a mistake.

And having the replay game just isn’t going to happen logistically, financially.

These days, in the economics of today, you just can’t do that.

So then we have the play until you score scenario. Maybe an extra sub or two?

That could work. Some people say take players off like hockey does. I don’t know. I think they should play until they drop.

We’re getting ahead of ourselves. Back to you; back from Argentina…

So I’m back, working for a small paper in New Jersey, The Herald News. That was my first journalism job.

Was journalism a long-time goal growing up?

It did grow to be an interest, and once I started working at my college paper, I stopped going to class. You’re doing it, right, what do you have to teach me about. It was that kind of thing. So I was at the Herald News, and you know, growing up in this area, I never knew how many papers there were in New Jersey. There were a lot. And we covered pro sports like the New York papers did. The difference was, if you covered the Yankees, after the season, you came back in the office and covered high school sports. We all did it. It was great training. I did it. Then I got to cover the Cosmos. I Traveled with them. It was like being in heaven. It really was because I got to hang out with a lot of the guys I idolized as a young player. I got to know them. It was a different time. Certainly Warner when they owned the team were aware that, “we had to promote it. We have to make these guys available.”

In a way that nobody else did. For example, that was the beginning of female reporters in the locker room. The Cosmos were never going to say no. So what they did was very smart. They gave out bathrobes to all the players and said, “you don’t like it, you’re uncomfortable, too bad. Put on your robe, the locker room is an open locker room.” It was a very smart approach to a ‘problem’ that was bothering everybody.

Was it to the point where the first female reporter to enter a male, post-game locker room was in the Cosmos locker room?

I think it was Helene Elliott, but she wasn’t the first. The first suit was brought by Melissa Ludtke from Sports Illustrated. And they had good arguments. Helene would argue that they would bring players out to her, but the banter among the reporters was something she would miss and that wasn’t fair. And she was right, it wasn’t fair.

So covering the Cosmos was amazing. I hung out with these guys, I got to be friends with some of them. I went skiing out in Washington with Jeff Durgen. We hung out. We were friends. And also the foreign guys – remember Adam, it was a different time. They came here because they were anonymous. Beckenbauer could walk down the street and no one would know who he was. And he was very happy with that. And that’s how the majority of them looked at it. Certainly, the non-English Europeans, it was heaven for them.

It wasn’t like working for me. We traveled together, stayed in the same hotels. They allowed us to go to the post-game meals. And the guy who was in charge then, Steve Ross, was a brilliant guy. He latched onto it as a way to promote Warner television, movies, around the world. The Cosmos went on tour every year. Preseason and postseason tour. They never made any money, but it was a great way to promote. They were the first – and I say this to anybody who asked me – they were Real Madrid before there was a Real Madrid. They were the global brand before there was global branding. It was so far ahead of its time, it fell on its face because of that. But it planted the seeds and when I started getting involved in MLS people were like “we don’t want to do it like the NASL” Ok, fine, we understand that, but the game is still on the field. People will come to see you or not based on what’s on the field. And now miraculously, MLS is saying ok we’ll do it. It’s on the field now finally. But with the Metrostars and Red Bulls, they’ve poisoned the atmosphere for so long that its gonna take a long time. Maybe it doesn’t happen. I don’t know, but I do know…

Don Garber and I – I’m not going to say friends but we’re very friendly – and before the season we used to meet at a diner, off the record, just to talk. And I said to him a long time ago, you know Don, as many good moves as they are making, which they are undeniably, the league will never be anything until you have a decent team in New York. He said, “I know, we’re working on things. It’s not easy.” There was agreement, disagreement, but ultimately I think they came back to the realization that we have to have someone in New York that is going to put a serious team on the field.

AEG for all the positive things people will say, they are an entertainment company. They put on shows. There is a stage on the field in Dallas so they can put on concerts. Dallas played four of their first games away because it was booked for other things. And you know, the term soccer-specific I laugh at. I can’t stand it. You’re doing other stuff there; it’s not just soccer. You want to call it a soccer stadium, ok, but don’t come up with this silly euphemism. And to me that’s what it is; it’s just silly. Call it what it is. It’s a soccer stadium where you hope to have other events so you can make money. Ok, fine. I got that. I don’t love it, but I got it. Better than saying soccer-specific.

There’s a lot of stuff. And a lot people criticize MLS; there’s a lot to criticize. You’ve a lot of Americans making more money. We know that. But in terms of their plan now, it’s just a matter of when. It’s no longer ‘if’. A few years ago, when Champions World was doing the games, I would sit with Don and he was like, “this is killing me.” Teams would come over from wherever and we would look Mickey Mouse. I’d say to him, you know Don, when you go shopping at the mall is there one department store or are there 3, 4, 5? They draw business to everything. This is soccer, and for me it raises the profile of the game. Maybe you’re not the guys associated with it, but I don’t think Charlie Stillitano’s ChampionsWorld is going to stick around. They are going to come back and look for something and it’s going to be you guys because you’re the only game in town, and that’s what happened.

where do the lower divisions fit into that picture?

I don’t know if they do. I don’t know if they do. There is a guy, Francisco Marcos. He ran the Tampa Bay Rowdies a few years ago. He was always a bit of a loose cannon. But he stuck with it; got to give the guy credit. He found a way to make it work. How they make money, I have no clue.

I know very little about the non-MLS leagues, but the little I do know and hear from people, it is pretty amazing to me sometimes that they even exist.

I know, I know. I think player-wise, you get a lot of players who would rather play A-league USL first division and indoors, and make decent money, than play in MLS. MLS guys are tied to the league 10 months out of the year. Antoher thing with USL, there is a new team in California this year that Dimtri Pieterman. He bought into Racing Santander in Spain. And he was a little wacky, so he got kicked out. He is now with Deportivo Alaves, which is a second division team. He bought into USL because he can send over his reserve team to play in the summer. MLS would never do that. Barcelona wanted to do that, MLS didn’t. They don’t want a reserve team. They want a team. So that didn’t happen, maybe it will in the future.

I can see why MLS wouldn’t want b-teams coming over for exhibition games or tours, but if they were coming over for an entire season, I think that would be pretty exciting in that I think American soccer can use all the benchmarks it can muster.

yeah. You know, we would all like it to make sense. Promotion-relagation: never going to happen. Forget it. They had an agreement with the A-league for a while where if they needed players, they could borrow them. And a lot of inscrutable stuff went on, who knows. That ended. So now, MLS has their reserve teams; they are starting up the academies, which is the way to go. I don’t think a lot of people know this, but Lionel Messi went to Barcelona when he was 12, and he played in the academy system. And he worked his way up. We have nothing like that.

So given that, would it be fair, as I have said numerous times before, that MLS is now just beginning. We have dug out the hole and now we are at ground zero, opening youth academies, building stadiums, developing players. Wipe out the first ten years, and now, give them another ten years, and these arguments people have had from day one, ten years ago, will be worthwhile in that the league as a business, as a professional American sport can be judged fairly, for better or worse.

Yes. Yes. You’re right. And I think there are diamonds in the rough out there – guys like Chris Rolfe: guys who somehow have the skill and fortitude to assert themselves and succeed a MLS level. In my mind, and I agree with Paul Gardner here, who I have known a long time and who has been trumpeting this forever, we are too anglo-centric. Way too much. For years, it’s been, “oh you have an English accent. Ok, one, I have a hard on, and two, you must know soccer.” And its just not true. And as years go by, it becomes even less so. In my mind if you look at the European teams or coaches who go some place and make a difference, they’re Spanish, Portuguese, Argentine. There are soccer minds in this hemisphere who get no time for people to listen to them in the US.

So why do you think that is. That kind of bridges us up to a Bob Bradley conversation?

I think it’s language; it’s culture. And it’s this misbegotten notion that the English have the key to the vault. And they don’t.

because that’s our fatherland, if you will?

I think it’s that; it’s still the people at the upper echelons who either are English or who have closer ties there. it’s just easier. Right now, it’s just easier.

These are some of the same reasons EPL is the most popular league here. Is the argument there the same?

It is. And it’s great stuff. Argentina on Fox Soccer Channel in Spanish. Tremendous games! My 17-year-old son is a big Man United fan, but he won’t put on a Spanish-language game. You’re just watching the game, I say, who cares what they’re saying? I remember watching the 1982 World Cup here and it was all on Univision in Spanish. I didn’t care. I’m watching the games.

And if you’re like me, half the time you mute the American announcers anyway.

Right. I know. And I have a daughter, 14, who plays. And I started coaching. And my thing with coaching is I don’t care about tactics. Don’t tell me you’re a defender at 11-years-old. I’m going to laugh. Don’t tell me about conditioning or what position you play. I don’t care about any of it. To me, its all about skill. It has to be about skill, and that is where the Brazils and Argentinas and every Colombian and Peruvian will have over the Americans. Pure Skill. I would say to my girls, can you juggle the ball? I’d start a practice – let’s juggle! And they would say, “we can’t.” and I’m like you can’t because you don’t, you have to try. “Well, when is that going to matter in a game?” I don’t know, maybe never, but you have to control the ball.

Look no further than Angel’s goal last night (the game from Thursday where he caught the ball with his left and then struck it with his right)

I called my son. I said for most people that first touch would have been over the back line.

That’s juggling right there.

That’s juggling right there. It’s feel for the ball. It’s a sense and a comfort that we don’t have. And I’m not going to say all Americans, because clearly that isn’t the case, but there’s not enough. It’s not who is going to be the next Freddy Adu. When are we going to have a Maradona? When are we going to have an Angel?!

Consistently good was my point. I made a point of Mapp, in that one, I love him, but two, he has these moments of brilliance and then he disappears for months. a bad game, fine, but weeks, months?

I like him too. But we have to remember all the time, who is giving these guys the ball? Who is giving Jozy Altidore the ball? Where was Jaime Moreno getting the passes from? Alright? Where is Chris Rolfe getting the ball from? You see, its not just alchemy, there is A reason for all of this.

Does that call into question the coaching, then, or just the increase of support players, something like a point I love to make about our best players today being our mediocre players tomorrow?

No, because I think it’s a players game. I always have; I always will. You coach during the week. You prepare, but once the game comes, its very hard to make moves. The Italians are the ones that do that well. Tactically, they are second to none. Every tournament when they need a point, they get the point. They need three, done. They play very astutely. They make adjustments. Not many coaches are good at making those adjustments. To me, that’s another issue. First, though, you have to have the talent. Bob Bradley didn’t have the talent in New York. He is a great guy, a terrific coach, a smart guy, a soccer guy through and through. He thinks about nothing than soccer

It really is hard to come up with bad things to say about him. He does and says all the right stuff.

You can’t say anything bad. Listen, I have to tell you a story that told me more about Bob Bradley than you ever needed to know. It was his first season, and I was working on my MLS preview for the paper. And I needed to talk to him on A Friday. This was in what, 2003 I think. My kids were younger, and that Friday was A day off from school. No babysitter. I had to take them with me, and I never take any of my kids to work, ever. They had just put down the new field turf; I took them out there; they’re running around, great, beautiful. I go over to talk to Bob. We’re underneath by the locker room, talking; the kids are running around, ok, no big deal. I realized at some point, ok, that’s enough, they need to get off. I say to Bob, I’m really sorry, I can’t let them disrupt everything, but I’d like you to meet them. So I call them over. And this is when Bradley was beginning to remake the team. He had traded a few guys, one of whom was Mike Petke, the favorite of a lot of people. So here’s my son, Jesse. “Hi Jesse, you play?” yeah yeah ok, they chat for a second. Then my daughter comes over, I think she was 8 or 9 at the time. She walks up, my daughter Samantha: “Why’d you trade Mike Petke?” I’m ready to, Adam, if there was a hole, I would have crawled into it. I was very embarrassed. Bob Bradley handled it like this was his daughter. He bent down and said, “Well Samantha, you know sometimes to get what you want, you have to give away something, and that’s what I decided to do.” Oh, she says, but I really liked him. “I know,” he said, “a lot of people did.” He talked to her like she mattered, and as a father that said more to me than anything that could happen on the soccer field. Because if a man would do that, to me, it was aces in my book. And anytime people want to know what I think about Bob Bradley, that’s the story I tell.

You can eve see that same personality, no, when he talks about his own son.

When he talks about Michael his eyes light up.

Michael Bradley chases after Lee Nguyen during US MNT training last week. Photo from USSF.

and it has to be tough to answers some of those questions. Fathers coaching there sons has a long and storied history in sports, and a lot of people resent it.

I notice that too.

I just notice he always pauses for that few seconds before every answering questions about Michael.

Always. Always. Bob is very measured in his responses.

and yet, many, including myself, think little Bradley is one of our best players looking down the road.

Oh, he is, he is.

which then goes to prove how grounded the father and coach is when he addresses the situation without overt praise or heavy criticism.

I’m sure he does that, but not for public consumption. The first time I walked out on to the training field, I didn’t know who Michael was. I asked, who is that kid. Because he’s got such an incredible soccer sense that he is going to be a terrific player.

Yeah, he could be our next Reyna, holding down the midfield, and moving the ball through the center instead of throwing it up the flanks all the time.

Yes. We do need that. Some many years ago, somebody said to me: look, people say America will win the world cup 2010 or whatever. And I say, when you have the players to compete with other top soccer nations, you’ll be in the same boat as they are: trying to win. There are plenty of countries that haven’t won.

Is that one of the major problems not just with the casual soccer fan in this country, but the ignorant portions of the general media as well – and maybe it all goes back to the American ego? You can even give them England as the easy example. They fail consistently

Right. Right. Consistently. It is just such an American way of thinking. We went to the Quarterfinals in South Korea, the only measure of improvement is semi-finals. You didn’t; you failed. If Portugal beat South Korea in ’02, we were out! So it’s so precarious. Arena says that all the time, but still people don’t get it.
I always found Arena very matter a fact with those subjects. He didn’t seem to accept the ignorance of America in that regard.

He never would banter with you on a topic. He would politely answer questions and be done. I wrote a story once that he claimed almost got him fired. It was two-three years ago. I am very friendly with the soccer coach at Fairleigh Dickinson University, Seth Roland, who is very friendly with Bruce and Bradley too. I had lunch with Seth one day. You know I talk to people, ask them what they find interesting in the sport at the time. He said that I should call Bruce up and get his impressions about MLS at the time. Ok, so I call him on a Monday morning. And the stuff he is saying I can’t believe it. I can’t believe it. So I usually do my column, a few bits about different stuff, but this was too good to do that way. I’m going to do a short intro and right into the Q&A. Adam, I tell you the A-bomb went off. My phone didn’t stop ringing the next day. Apparently he almost got fired, but as I said to him. You know Bruce, I know you hate me right now, but I think we both know US Soccer needed someone like you to stand up and say, “this system is messed up and this is why, and this is why we don’t succeed.” It had to be someone with some credibility.

and who more so than him at that point?

There was nobody. There never had been anybody. It’s always been fly-by-night. Even in the media, it was “who cares?”

It wouldn’t hard, sitting here thinking about it, to argue that before Arena, there was no US Soccer. Sampson who?

I got to tell you. When my brother and I were kids, our dad brought us to the Empire State Building. We were playing soccer already. Maybe we were in our early teens. So we’re waiting to go up, and on the directory, there’s the United States Soccer Federation. My dad says, “let’s go up; let’s see who is there.” We knock on the door, walk in, there’s a guy sitting at a desk. “Oh, nice to see you. Thanks for stopping by. Here’s a couple of patches.” Who is it? It’s Kurt Lamm, the general secretary. Like a receptionist. It was so strange, but that’s what it was. Totally amateur. Totally amateur.

part of me likes that. Not the business side. I’m glad MLS isn’t run like that, but I like the access granted to reporters or even stuff released by the players and teams. Fun stuff that can engage kids that MLB or the NFL would never do.

I think a couple of things. They are more atuned to these things than other leagues because the have to promote themselves. However, I don’t think they are very good at promoting. They don’t want to promote individual players for obvious reasons. Because it’s a single entity and if you promote individuals they are going to ask for more money. They are in this conundrum. The sports, everything, is about personality these days. You have to have it. and you get that with Beckham, but then what? After him, who, what? I’ve always found soccer players to be some of the neatest people to talk to.

and the international bent certainly brings in a lot of different stories?
Sure, and they have not been good about getting those out.

It makes me think of baseball. There is this outcry about a lack of black players, but what about all the other minorities breaking into baseball, with wonderful stories to be celebrated. But we don’t hear about those, we just hear that there are no black players.

Right. I think there is more sensitivity in baseball because of immigration and the racial aspects. It’s a big problem for baseball. Black people don’t play it anymore. They don’t watch it by and large. And soccer has a similar problem, as you know. Basketball in the United States is what soccer is around the world. It’s urban; it’s poor; you don’t need a lot of money. You can do it anywhere. Basketball is our soccer, so its always going to be a niche, but it can be pretty damn big niche and still succeed.

Have you seen in all your years with soccer and especially here in New York, the urban epicenter of the nation, that could help soccer to pull on those basketball strings? Sunil and USSF say they are going after the urban environments, but I don’t see it.

I’m not going to say they aren’t. I think they are. I think people are always looking, but at the end of the day, it’s still the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. As unrealistic as it is in reality, to millions of basketball players, they still see themselves as the next Lebron James. In soccer, there’s no, if you want to stay home, there’s money, but there’s not big dollars across the board. The money talks. Not everybody wants to go to Europe. Not everybody wants to pull up stakes. And as you know, it’s a brutal business over there. They have no time to coddle people. They aren’t going to coddle people. They aren’t going to take a Landon Donovan at 19-20-years-old and teach him how to play. They expect you to come here and know how to play. It’s like college. They will teach remedial English, but they aren’t happy about it.

Will that ever change, I guess I’m speaking about the perception of American soccer. I mean, we call it soccer, not even football?

Right, there’s that, but I think a lot of things go into it. Most people grow up here fairly comfortable. There is no burning desire – or at least the burning desire to succeed at sports is less here. There are other opportunities.

Part of me hates that that is the way it is. It’s a larger cultural conversation, and I guess you need absolute devotion, and having no options maybe forces that devotion, but I hate the idea that sport academies and training camps are like pet stores for under privileged kids, where the best of the litter are plucked out while those that don’t make the cut are forgotten about.

It happens all the time. It’s life. Devotion makes great anything though. Passion. Desire. A lack of opportunity over the years if you want to call it that - it happens all the time. But look at Kaka. They make a point to say he is from the middle class. His father was an engineer. He had opportunity; he chose soccer. It doesn’t happen all the time. But it happens. My point – everybody says you got to go to Europe, and there’s a lot of truth to that – is that it’s definitely not for everybody. Some guys go over, and some guys stay, like Eddie Pope, who said I know I can play. I’m home. Not so bad. I’ll live with that. And then there’s a guy like Clint Dempsey: I got to prove myself against the best players in the world. That’s what I’m about.

Is it that drive that’s missing in at least some of those that stay? Maybe even to the point where it affects the game here?

I think it is. I don’t know if affects the game. It affects them, and ultimately what they end up doing. I think it was Kasey Keller who I talked to, and he was very happy with, you know, if it’s not England, its Germany, Spain, and he was like, you know what, its been a great life experience. For me, my wife, my kids, I wouldn’t trade it for the world.

I would love to have that.

I would love to have that too.

A few years here and there…

How could you beat it? but its not for everybody.

While were on the worldwide stage, what’s you’re favorite league?

Right now, I’d have to say Spain. I still love watching the English games, make no mistake about it. But I think Spain for the skill and the depth of the skill among all the different players.

Continuing with the obvious and cliché questions, what’s your stand with the Bradley interim tag and then its removal?

USSF president Sunil Gulati working at his other gig, Columbia University professor.

I think Sunil got backed into a corner. Because the way I understand it, Arena was offered the Red Bulls job for a lot of money. He went back to the federation and said, look, I know I am yours until December, I’ve been offered this money. I’ll stay if you want me to, but you’ll have to match it. And they let him go. So, from the beginning Arena – he is a long time friend of Bradley – said ‘I think the next coach should be an American coach. I think it should be Bob Bradley.’ And I’ve known Sunil for a very long time, and we met before the World Cup, and I asked him, who’s your next coach? ‘Bob Bradley?’ he said. ‘I like Bob, I don’t know if he has the passion.’ Sunil obviously was always thinking about it. and then he told me that he really wanted Donadoni, and the day of the World Cup final he calls Donadoni’s agent for a meeting. Donadoni wasn’t even in Berlin. The agent said, he’s taking over tomorrow, as coach of Italy. So then, he’s on the skids with Italy. If he loses a qualifier, he’s maybe out. So I asked Sunil what would he have done if that happened, and he said, ‘how can I hire him then? He’s the guy I wanted all along and now he washes out of his job after 6 months. How do I look then?’ So, he was really screwed. The whole interim thing – everybody was up in arms – its all bullshit, because in the world of soccer, it doesn’t mean squat. Three, four years before a world cup: how many teams change coaches in that period? Happens all the time.

Klinnsman is a good example of that.

Yes. And I think Sunil talked to everybody. And he should have. I think they are worried about the carpetbagger type coach, who jets in, jets out. But the whole idea that the interim tag was offensive, it’s just stupid to me. Maybe it’s unfair to Bob, and it looks worse than it is, but in the world of soccer its not so far fetched. Qualifying doesn’t start until next spring. That’s almost a year. What’s the problem? Players keep playing. I was kind of baffled. And SUNIL further boxed himself in by saying he would have a fulltime coach by the Gold Cup. He didn’t have to say that. He could have said ‘I will hire a fulltime coach when I’m ready to hire a coach.’ But he was so raked over the coals.

I noticed that too, in that these situations rarely have strict timelines. And given all the secrecy of the whole process, why come out and say that? It made Sunil appear to be tortured, which I think boiled over to the perception that he didn’t know what he was doing? Given that, why not just explain yourself? It just looked like some sneaky politicians trying to cover their mistakes, and in classic fashion, just making it look worse.

I agree. He would never confirm or deny anything, except when I had a little note about [Sven Goran] Erickson, because it came from his agent, so because that didn’t come from Sunil, he admitted it. But there is no doubt in my mind that they talked to everybody. And don’t be surprised if Scolari ends up as the coach, who is done with Portugal after 2008. Next summer you will have your pick of these coaches if you aren’t happy with what’s going on.

It’s just a calamity of madness. I know it’s the standard in big time coaching hiring/firing. It happens in every sport. All these promises, followed by whatever the hell they want. You just wish it doesn’t invade your house. And it did.

Exactly. I think when they hired Arena, they needed an American coach to deal with the American players. I don’t think that’s the case anymore. Maybe we see something different. It’s a tough call. What we see happening in America right now is so different from any other country in a lot of ways. The league stepped in, and I’m not going to say saved the federation, but put the federation on solid footing. SUM took the marketing rights because nobody wanted them. And SUM has been very adept and they realized that in order to succeed we need the Fed on our side. Whereas the NASL said to the Fed, screw off; you guys are a bunch of amateurs; you have nothing to tell us; we’re not going to listen to you.

And they’re still saying it!

They are still saying it. And it caused the U.S., it caused us, a lot of problems. Maybe we would have had the World Cup in 1986 if they would have towed the line a little bit more, but it was a way for FIFA to say, you know what, you’ve thumbed your nose at us for 15 years, ok, you know what, you don’t matter. You’re out of business, and something will come along later that is more to our liking. And that is exactly what happened. And now there is no country in the world where the Fed and the top league work so closely together. They do doubleheaders. The only thing they don’t do is suspend their season.

and there’s my next question…

Eventually, the have to go to the European calendar. You have to.

Is it just a stadium and competition thing that they chose summer?

It would seem that way if you ended at the right time, but if you’re going to run it into November, you’re lost. Look, they’re lost. They’re lost anyway. And they know that. They know that no matter when they play, it’s a tough sell. So do you do like Germany and take a six week break? Which makes sense. Make it easier for your players to compete in off-season tournaments? Yeah. Put your transfer windows in conjunction with the rest of the world? Makes sense. It makes sense… when you’ve got your own stadiums. And yet, they don’t know if people will go in December or February. It’s an open question, but eventually you have to do it. This summer there are four major tournaments. Last year there was one.

Let’s jump to a happier topic, but one no further from either of our hearts. The New York Times. It’s the paper. I’d like to know your personal history there, and then the soccer situation, or lack thereof.

I’ve been there 16 years now. Technically, I’m an editor. I’m not a reporter. I write the weekly soccer notebook column. They come to me or don’t come to me for other stories. I offer stories, sometimes they go for them, sometimes they don’t. So any soccer writing I do for the Times is extra for me. I don’t get to go many places, unless its on my own dime, like Barcelona. If that changes, there is no way of knowing. So either I accept it the way it is, or I don’t.

So wait, the Barcelona story from a few weeks ago with Ronaldihno, you paid your way over there?

Yeah, well, it’s because it is me. If George Vecsey had said I want to go to Barcelona, no sweat. But it’s not. And don’t get it wrong, I’m happy to get to do whatever I get to do because its something I have a passion for and most people outside the New York Times don’t know what I do. They see my byline, Jack Bell, New York Times, so that is what they think. And I’m not going to lie to anybody if they asked me, but I’m also not going to come right out and say, hey, go talk to somebody else. If it’s a good story, I want to do it. The web has given me more of an outlet than I might have had otherwise. I’m a resource. I contribute. However they want me to contribute. They want more, great. They don’t want anything, I won’t do anything. It’s as one of my old friends said to me: ‘Jack, tomorrow you could write your last soccer story and you’ll still have a job at the New York Times.’ Which is true. Which is important. I’ve got a family and obligations. As much as I’d love to sit and be told, go and do it, I just know its not going to happen. Or at least its not going to happen now.

And that is my main question. The easy example is that there is no Red Bulls beat reporter, but I’m speaking more to soccer coverage on the whole. When if ever is that going to change?

I think it depends on the top guy. It’s going to take someone in charge of the sports department who has experience with the game. The Washington Post has a Hispanic sports editor. He was being recruited by the Times, and I had my fingers crossed. Because look what he did at the Post. Steve Goff was an editor like me who did his soccer stuff on the side. At the Times now, not in the past but now, they will not take an editor and make them a reporter. At the Post, one of the first things he did was say, Steve Goff you’re off editing and go do the soccer like we want you to do, like you want to do. That’s your beat. Go and do it. And I knew that might have been me. Hey, there’s no guarantee, there’s no guarantee. So for soccer stuff, they come to me sometimes when they have nowhere else to go.

This past summer for example, did they plan for Cup coverage?

They did a bit. They took some of my suggestions. I wrote a piece before the Cup about young stars to watch. Then when the Klinnsman stuff started breaking afterward, they asked me to do it. And then low and behold the guy calls me up at the office and says I want the job. Baboom – it’s in the paper. It’s not me. It has very little to do with me. It’s who I work for. And I know that.

But to some degree, I feel like because it’s the New York Times…

It should.

It should.

I know. Of course it should. Of course it should.

They won’t even cover their hometown team

There’s a couple things there. For ten years the team that played over there has sucked. And it’s made it easy for people to ignore it. So how do you wipe that away? It doesn’t happen overnight or in one season or two seasons. It’s going to take time. There is no one in the stands. There are no TV ratings. These are the excuses they use. However, if a guy like George Vecsey comes over and says I want to cover the New York Red Bulls, that would change it a little bit. We’ve hired people to cover boxing, and they don’t get anything in the paper. Space, etc, you know, a lot of things go on. So those writers go to another paper.

Then just on-line. Give us an internet guy, which to me, no matter your title, is what you are.

We’re trying. I went to the guy who runs the website and said I’ll do whatever you want, but they won’t pay anything. I’m not going to kill myself. There was a time, I got up, went to training everyday whether something happened or not because it was the place to be. Now, with the web, I just give them the Q&A. I did the Didier Drogba interview a while ago that was among our top ten. The Ronaldihno story. I had that and it sat waiting to be published for a week. Then they buried it in the back page with no artwork.

outside Ronaldinho’s house

To begin with, I went to them and said Ronaldihno. They said what’s the angle? I said the angle is that he talked to us. What other angle do you need? The angle is I went to his house.

Exactly. I did a double take reading that, questioning to myself, is Jack Bell in Ronaldinho’s house? No, this had to be a phone interview, but there it was again.

They called me one morning. It was supposed to go down after training one day. But they called and said c’mon, we have to go out to his house. I said, WHAT? So I’ve got pictures of him in his house. Didn’t use them.

I’ll use those Jack

They’re yours. I’ll e-mail over to you. I’d be happy to. So, this is the type of thing. And people ask me, isn’t that hard to deal with. And yeah, it is at times, but you know what, Adam, I’m happy I am able to do what I can do.

the trophy case

Certainly no complaining about Ronaldinho’s house. Who cares if you’re getting paid at that point?

Right. It was cool. I’m not egotistical about it. I have never done that, and I will never do that. Hey, people call you back. The access is unbelievable. I called Bayern Munich one time. I’d like to talk to Roy Makaay. They were tickled. New York Times wanted! I got him on the phone. I just talked to Ben Sahar. I’m going to write that maybe next week because Israel is in the U21 European Championship. It depends on the team, but they are more helpful now than they used to be.

Maybe because they are becoming aware of the American market? Selling their brands?

Yes. The funniest one was maybe two years ago. It’s winter and I’m walking through Times Square. And on the Conde Nast building there is a billboard, and it’s a Calvin Klein ad. And who is in the ad in his underwear? It’s Freddie Lumberg. This is nuts. So I started. It’s Arsenal first, then down the line. ‘We don’t know.’ ‘We’ll be in touch.’ So it turns out he was doing another Calvin Klein commercial in May, so they call me up. ‘Would you like to talk to him now? He is coming back for another commercial.’ I don’t care what promotion he is doing. Sure! ‘Ok, he’ll call you on this day.’ What time? ‘We don’t know. He’ll call you.’ So it was a Friday. I waited all day and at 5 or something the phone rings. ‘Hello, Jack. It’s Freddie.’ And we talked, we chatted. And my lede was, this is globalization. A soccer player from Sweden, who plays soccer in England, selling underwear on a billboard in Times Square. What else do you need to know?

and 99.9 percent of the people who saw the billboard just think it’s some hot guy.

Yes. No idea. So, you never know where this stuff is going to come from. At least that’s what I find.

Especially here in America. The mix of cultures…

It’s bizarre. It really is.

And then you look at how we can sit here and talk and argue about all of this and celebrate it and drool over Ronaldinho, and yet, we walk outside and nobody cares, nobody knows.

And that’s the thing. It’s amazing stuff. I used to do a column for a magazine that was called, ‘They Call This Work.’ And it never was. It never was work to me, and it still aint.

the pool. a nice way to end a long day on the pitches of Spain.