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designated players
so close yet so far
A Meadowlands’ view of New York
A new week; another week closer to the MLS season; another thing to think about. If the MLS is anything, I think we can all agree it’s a work in progress. This becomes crystal clear after reading an article by Steve Davis on MLS profitability, which focuses on the Red Bulls and their reported $14 million in losses from last year, which in no small part is due to leasing Giants Stadium and filling it with less than 10,000 fans on average. Red Bull Park is going up as we speak, so the RBNY situation may change, considering most teams which have their own stadiums are all on the short list for profitability.
But that isn’t where problems end for the New York Red Bulls.
Davis’ article reminded me of something I have been thinking about for a while now. The forthcoming Red Bull Park is in Harrison, New Jersey. Not New York. When Steve Davis asks, “When is the good time to toss $14 million into the Hudson River,” he should be asking about the Passaic River, which runs through Harrison. Yes, the Hudson is awfully close to Giants Stadium - the Meadowlands sporting complex is essentially interstitial wetlands and flood plains created from the intermixing of the several meandering river channels dumping into the Atlantic Ocean – but that too is in New Jersey. I want a New York team. MLS needs a truly New York team.
Adding to the name game is the fact that there is no quick and easy way to get from New York to the Meadowlands, and you have a big reason why there are only 10,000 fans on average at Red Bull games. New Yorkers aren’t going. Moving the team farther from New York to Harrison, a place so beautiful a NY Times reporter wrote, “for decades the nicest thing said about this town of withered factories, toxic waste sites and dried-up ambitions was that at least it was not Newark. Or that it was a great place to park and catch a train for Manhattan,” is not going to get more New Yorkers to Red Bull games even if the transportation is better, which it will be. Ok, I can’t prove any of this, but it’s not going to get me to more Red Bull games, and if someone like me isn’t going to make the haul, I find it hard to believe that the average American family whose lives are much more complicated and tied down than mine are going to make the trek. It’s a selfish opinion, i know.
Lets take a look at exactly what I’m talking about here - where this comes from. The last Red Bull game I attended was when Barcelona was in town. It’s the perfect game to examine the transportation from New York to Giants Stadium, because for once, the game was sold out. The game was in the late afternoon, and a few of us headed to the Port Authority Bus Terminal – the world’s busiest bus terminal - to catch a bus about 3 hours before the game. (Subways don’t go to New Jersey, so a bus is your only option unless you feel like spending $50 on a taxi.) Once we saw the line for the tickets for the bus – not the line for the bus, but the line for the tickets for the bus, which once you get through, allows you to then go and wait in an even longer line to get on the bus - a taxi was sounding like a deal.
About 45 minutes later, after trying to hail a cab near the Lincoln Tunnel in Midtown Manhattan – don’t try it – and trying to call a car service that wasn’t going to be able to come and get us for at least another hour, we finally caught a cab. We approached Giants Stadium in the always horrific, sold-out-game-day traffic. Screw it, we thought, and jumped from the cab as it idled on the highway. I few waist-high roadway walls and the lustrous brown grassiness of acres upon acres of Meadowlands parking lots was all that lay between us the stadium. As is often the case in New York, walking made more sense than a car. We walked about a mile, after paying $50 to go barely more than that distance in a cab.
The game always washes away the bad memories of getting there, but there is very little to make the journey home a pleasant one. First, good luck catching a cab back to New York. Post-game, the bus is your only choice, and only the line of people waiting for buses was longer than the line of buses. It would be a good two hours until we found ourselves back in midtown Manhattan – the bottleneck of traffic going through any of the island’s tunnels is something to indeed behold if the world’s worst traffic jams is your thing. It’s something like 10 lanes down to 2. Once back at The Port Authority, we walked the 25 blocks home, not being able to stomach waiting for the subway with the throngs of Ronaldinho fans.
Sound like fun? Seeing #10 play, sure. Getting there and getting home, not so much. So when Amado Guevara and now Reyna are the big name draws instead of Ronaldinho, is anyone surprised the spectators drop from 80,000 to 10,000? HDTV sounds like a better way to go to me when I can’t even think of making it to a weekday game on time.
So what am I getting at? The NYRB is marketed as a New York franchise. It’s my team, or it should be. But it doesn’t feel like it, no matter the Times Square billboards. The team should be marketed as a Jersey franchise, a franchise I would still support, but New York should get its own team.
up on the roof. Gansevoort Hotel. New York.
On Wednesday, Mr. Sunshine and the energy drinkers are holding their 2007 Media Day on the rooftop terrace at the Gansevoort, a swanky hullabaloo of a hotel in Manhattan’s trendiest or the trendy Meat Packing District. Coincidently, it will take me all of 10 minutes to walk from my apartment to the Gansevoort, and I can’t help but think about how amazing it would be – I’d buy season tickets immediately – to be able to walk to a MLS game, just as I can to a Knicks or Rangers game.
one stadium rendering that was shot down for the NY Jets on Manhattan’s Westside.
Notice I say MLS game and not Red Bulls game. Ever since I heard the rumor of a second New York team (Jersey can have the Red Bulls if we get another one), I have, whether right or wrong, held RBNY at arms length (my Atlanta upbringing has something to do with this as well, as i’m not exactly wired to root for NY teams). With the Nets part of a monolithic complex going up in Brooklyn, and the rejuvenation of downtowns and inner cities all over the nation – see Atlanta or Oakland as examples – I think a MLS stadium, which would be smaller than any other sporting complex (and thus at least partially removed from the trouble a humongous structure and hideous crowds brought to the NY Jets proposed Westside stadium), could work tremendously well in lower Manhattan. But I don’t care exactly where, just build it. They will come.
sd
on Mar 19th, 2007 - 4:59pm
PATH isn’t “quick and easy”? Seriously?
I don’t see how the Harrison Stadium wouldn’t bring more NY fans to RBNY games. Yeah, the physical distance is greater, but it’s closer in every other way. You’re talking about paying $1.50 for a 15-minute ride from Lower Manhattan, 20 minutes from Midtown, versus paying $7 for the bus ride from hell.
For a Manhattanite, that’s a lot more accessible than a stadium in a realistic location in the Five Boroughs, say, the previously proposed Aqueduct Racetrack, or just for shits and giggles, Met Oval.
pete
on Mar 19th, 2007 - 5:54pm
yes, PATH to Harrison will be quicker than getting to Giants Stadium, but i dont like it one bit and i wouldnt call it quick and easy, at least not like MSG or that proposed Westside stadium. New York deserves a team in the city - the city with the diversity a soccer franchise should be drooling over. NJ doesnt have that.
Ric
on Mar 19th, 2007 - 6:26pm
As sd posted before, the PATH will take you to the Harrison station, which is a short distance from the RBPark site. If that pesky 20 minute train ride is too far, well, guess you won’t be coming. Your loss.
Also, I find it interesting that you say a MLS stadium would be great in Manhattan or a borough to “rejuvinate” the area. What do you think RBPark is part of? The rejuvination of an inner-city that’s located right near the city. In fact, its a rejuvination of an area that is and has been a hotbed of soccer activity (local heroes like Ramos and Meola, one of the best high school teams in the nation, etc.) and in an area with a vibrant Portuguese and Brazilian community (the Ironbound section of Newark is right across the river). Sounds like a great, diverse place to put a soccer stadium.
Further, most people associate North Jersey with NYC; that’s just the way it is. A north Jersey team is essentially a NY team (in fact, one idea bantered about with this new team would be that they would play- you guessed it- at RBPark in a Home Depot Center-like sharing deal). Would you prefer the Galaxy or Chivas not be promoted as an LA team because they play miles away? How about FC Dallas, which plays 30 miles away from downtown Dallas (or so says their website)? Would you say that New York City has no NFL team to call their own? Would you say, as a New Yorker, that you can’t get behind one of those teams cause they play a few miles over the border? Not many would be brave enough to take such a position.
Finally, if you want to wait for a new NYC MLS team, have fun. Its years away from being chosen as an expansion site and then the stadium will need to be built (how are real estate costs in the city nowadays? Rent on the land? Sounds a bit pricey for our league) and a team assembled (then you can suffer through expansion team blues…imagine first year Chivas or RSL in NY). Or, you realize that the Red Bulls are the local team for the forseeable future, they have an interesting team with promising youth and established vetrans, and that the transportation situation will be vastly better when Harrison opens, and you could start following/supporting them.
pete
on Mar 19th, 2007 - 7:23pm
i would love a mls stadium in manhattan. a small stadium right in town could be a soccer version of Madison Square Garden. no matter transportation, that is something to get behind.
soccernista
on Mar 19th, 2007 - 9:45pm
Build a stadium over the top of Columbia’s soccer field. Let Columbia use it. Done and done.
wamiq
on Mar 20th, 2007 - 1:42pm
Because Columbia University is just dying to have an MLS stadium… right.
No MLS stadium is being built in NY any time soon. There are myriad problems with the West Side site. There aren’t really any other options. A 25,000 soccer stadium is no small construction job. Public opposition is fierce. Unless you have a developer with clout like Ratliff (who just happens to own the Nets) on your side, it’s almost impossible to build a new stadium of that size in NY.
Meanwhile, the Harrison stadium is really going to be ridiculously easy to get to from NY - even easier than getting to a Mets game, really - and if it’s too far for you, you’re just lazy. Which I don’t think you personally are, given your trek to Giants Stadium for the Barca match. Just keep in mind that, as you mentioned, at best there’ll be 1/4 as many people at regular season Red Bulls games, and given that traffic builds up exponentially, there’s not going to be a whole lot of congestion for Red Bull games. And it’s obviously not even an issue if you take the PATH.
Also, I don’t think the popularity of the Giants and Jets is reduced by their not being in NY, despite being marketed as NY teams…
All just my $0.02. In the end, Harrison is just going to be SO much better than the Meadowlands…
McCrum
on Mar 21st, 2007 - 11:01pm
The problem with a professional stadium on a college campus is that the stadium will not be able to sell alcohol. This happened in Chicago while their stadium was being built.
That said, put a stadium on a train line and attendance will rise. Toyota Park doesn’t get the fans in like Soldier Field did. A stadium off the PATH line will get more people there than the Ghettolands by a long shot. There’s no need to cause a giant trafic snafu on the West Side on gamedays.
th
on Mar 22nd, 2007 - 9:15pm
guys,
call me crazy but i couldn’t agree with adam more.
i’m not sure how many of you actually live in the ny metro area but has anyone ever driven out to harrison, nj? it’s not my favorite trip but i’ll end up doing it this year because lack of choices. geez, i dont even like taking the PATH to hoboken!
but let NJ have the red bulls. i hope one day an MLS team in one of the ny boro’s will come into fruition. people would absorb the game and the team here. it would be a collection of the people of new york-not new york and new jersey. those are two different things.
and to think that red bull acts as if they are and will be new york’s team! it will never happen.
Pat McHugh
on Mar 23rd, 2007 - 11:41am
Adam, once again you have captured the essence of the problem. I haven’t been to an MLS game ever and don’t plan on it any time soon. I was going to the Barcelona game last summer, got stuck in traffic in the Bronx and turned around. I’m not paying $18 in tolls, another $10 to park before accounting for my ticket to see a mediocre(RBNY) product!
An MLS stadium in Manhattan is probably not a realistic possibility. Queens or Brooklyn (maybe Coney Island) is probably more realistic. Put one in either of these places and I’m sure I’d go with my family.
But what do I know about demographics? - I only grew up in Queens and lived in Brooklyn.(currently residing on Long Island) The marketing wizzes of MLS know better than me
We will see who’s right when RBNY is averaging 17,000 a game in a brand new stadium. The NY-MLS logic is the same used 25 years ago by the NHL people who did a study that concluded the Rangers averaged 18k a game at a full MSG, if you moved the team to the Meadowlands, they would still fill the (larger)arena and average 19+k. When the Rangers stayed put, they assumed putting ANY team in NJ (the Devils) will fill the arena. Flash forward to 2007, the Devils - one of the most sucessful teams in the sport over the past 15 years barely average 12-13k a game(while the Rangers still average 18k win or lose), a few years ago when the Nets were reaching the NBA Finals they were still playing playoff games in front of empty seats.
People will point to the NY NFL franchises but FOOTBALL IS FOOTBALL in America and like it or not, no other sport approaches its stature. You can put “NY” on a team’s shirt or in its name but New Yorkers are smart enough to realize it is a New Jersey team and as such, ignore them!
vinny
on Mar 23rd, 2007 - 1:40pm
To the comment posted by TH: to say that you live within the NY metro area (presumably within one of the 5 boroughs) and that you’d rather drive than take the PATH train to Harrison is nuts! I can only suspect that either you don’t actually live in NYC as you say, or that you’re a gluten for punishment. New Yorkers cannot live without mass transit, and paying the $3 round trip ticket for the 15-min or so ride to and from Red Bull Park isn’t just a good option… it’s the only option (okay, add subway fare if you must).
Whether or not New Yorkers actually decide to go has nothing to do with transportation, but perhaps more to do with the other part of this discussion and that is the desire for a true NY team. Myself, I’d love to see a west side stadium, but if the Jets can’t get it done, I’m not betting the farm on MLS to do so, even if on a smaller scale. So, until that time comes, should it ever, Queens to Harrison via foot;subway;path is looking like quite a nice Saturday afternoon.
th
on Mar 23rd, 2007 - 4:39pm
vinny,
i assumed you were from NY because your name is..Vinny.
but i’m just building the case for a stadium in queens, brooklyn, or manhattan itself. we can all agree on the desire for a stadium here, not NJ.
what we disagree on is the convenience factor. people perceive the PATH and the drive to the meadowlands and harrison a nuisance. And darnit, people want a team here, not jerz.
do you notice now at every press conference they have to say “the new york/new jersey area”? its because lawmakers in jerz got upset when it was decided to only have NY in the Red Bull team name.
point is…jerz feels the same way. deep down we want our own team, in our own town, without the PATH, without the drive.
but you’re right vinny, this is as good as it gets for now. and it is pretty good and will be fun. you can drink beers on the PATH right? in a paper bag?
i’ll be sure to see you at the games or on the PATH and we’ll have a few beers. how does that sound?
alex
on Mar 25th, 2007 - 10:14pm
RB Park will be easy to get to with the PATH. In addition, the Port Authority of NY is building a new tunnel that will allow fans to arrive at Giants Stadium from Penn Station!
So I mean, all the excuses you have are just silly. If the Metros stay at Giants stadium, in a couple of years your issues there will be gone, and the PATH to Harrison is just so easy. for example, it’s would be easier for me to commute on the Path to my job downtown from Harrison, than anywhere else in Manhattan other than village and below.
pedro
on Apr 20th, 2007 - 4:59am
well first of all, the team should convert from NY red bull to New Jersey red bull. the train ride would not take long from the city into harrison.. i know because i live in harrison and often go to the city by train. and for someone to say that harrison is the wrong place for an MLS team to settle in is ridiculous. Have you no idea of the rich soccer tradition in harrison. do your background check folks.. you are missing out on what the community of harrison has brought to new jersey soccer in fact, to the USA. We are in fact Soccertown USA.. not kearny. ask them kearny folks who they would love to play each season.. ask Tab Ramos, John Harkes and Tony Meola.. they loves playing in the infamous “Courts” in harrison…. Harrison has 22 state championships in high school.. the most in the state and probably in the country.. with a high school of less than 550 students competing and beating bigger schools year after year is remarkable. it is a 1-square mile town most of which used to be factories and now being redeveloped. walk down what used to be 4th st which is Frank E. Rodgers BLVD. and pass by the courts and watch some real soccer. the harrison high school has won the state championship most recently in 2001,2002,2003, and 2006. and came as runner-up in 2004. it is a beauty watching them play and the community fully supports them.. what better environment to bring an mls team to. In fact, while i played for the harrison high school team on the 2001-2004 teams.. we were being constantly invited to watch the back then metrostars games Nick Sakiewicz himself.. and we even held several soccer matches at giants stadium. Harrison is the perfect setting for an mls team to locate itself.. please feel free to respond and if you’d like contact me at dahnic23@hotmail.com please do so
Jai
on May 22nd, 2007 - 1:38am
The Red Bulls have put all the eggs in the Harrison basket. But it would be nice if they call it what it actually is then - the Harrison/NJ Red Bulls. I have no problem with that. Let them have the MLS franchise and let their soccer heritage support it. Good luck. Just don’t expect me to get there from Brooklyn to support the team, even though I’d love to see Altidore play.
I for one just want a real NY franchise. Let them play here in Brooklyn or in Queens. There’s pleny of room to build a 25,000 stadium..
David A
on Jun 5th, 2007 - 11:40am
I’ve been to four Metrostars games in my lifetime, which is kind of sad because I’ve lived in NYC my whole life and yet have seen Real Madrid play 6 times. Honestly I kind of refuse to support a “franchise” named after a company, much less when this is soccer and the word franchise should not even come into the equation. I say the Red Bulls need a name change, call them the Harisson Red Bulls and give them the stadium in Jersey, which I think looks lovely. Hopefully they can sell out evergame, I hope they do, but please, this is no New York team.
For me, I want to support the New York Soccer Club, with a 30,000 seat stadium in Queens, right were Shea Stadium is soon to be demolished. I have no doubt that this stadium will get filled up quickly, the Mets have no problem getting 30,000 in on a weekend or even on a weekday, and considering the demographics of the local area I see this new MLS club filling the stadium as well. Easy access to the 7 train and the Long Island Rail Road, combined with access to the Grand Central Parkway and plenty of parking space makes this the perfect location. Also don’t forget it will be next to Flushing Meadow Park, a massive open space for fans to come and enjoy before and after the game. Anyone who has been to this park knows that people are playing soccer there 24/7 and I’m sure if tickets are affordable they would love to see the games at a nearby stadium. Who knows, if the club wins a title they can go celebrate in the fountain underneath the Unisphere just like the major European clubs do when they win titles.
Also there are tons of local youth clubs in the area, the NYSC can incorporate youth teams into these local leagues to develop local talent. They can put a team into the Metropolitan League, Long Island Juniors, and the Westchester Soccer League and use these youth leagues as a support base for the club. Once these aspects are put into place the United States and New York can have a legit soccer CLUB which is actually a part of the community, not just a business based around soccer.
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